Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum - View Single Post

Michael Noonan · #26 (**permalink**) 04-June-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PennyRice

I agree. That is not the type of arrogance or pride I was talking about.

I disagree. There is a difference betweem self-confidence and arrogance. Self-confidence is certainly necessary for success in ANY field, scientific or otherwise. Arrogance may actually impede success, as it closes one's mind off to consideration of others' ideas. Also, some of the best scientists I've ever met gave also been some of the most self-effacing, so arrogance is not essential for success.

I also noted when I was in grad school that at least some people in particle physics seemed to think that being in particle physics implied that they were smarter than a given scientists in any other field. I will certainly cop to having that view while I was studying that field!

I got that arrogance knocked out of me when I switched fields to tox instead.

There are brilliant people in every field, and there are plodders in every field. The distribution of IQ scores over a given range is probably the same for all fields of science. 'AngryPhysics' talks about this in his/her latest blog entry.

That's the type of attitude I'm talking about. No offence, Eta C, but your expertise in particle physics does not translate to expertise in other fields such as, say, toxicology, medicine, physical chemistry, public health, neuroscience, etc. unless you have advanced, formal training in any of these areas. I wouldn't claim expertise in particle physics even though I studied field theory in grad school and was in the high energy group! Do I have some knowledge of the field? Yes. Expertise?

Nope.

I'm sure you are very accomplished in your field. So am I in mine. I'm sure you possess a wide array of surface knowledge about other scientific disciplines. So do I.

But, there is a difference between saying that one has knowledge of a field outside of one's zone of expertise and claiming to be or acting like an expert in a field outside of one's true zone of expertise. It is a fine line that is very easy to step over sometimes; I have stepped over it myself on occasion

. I am not claiming that you have stepped over it, Eta C, but I have seen it done by others on more than one occasion.

It is great to be a Renaissance person. It is not okay to claim universal expertise. To do so is not only arrogant and fallacious, it is also misleading, particularly for the layperson. That is the point of my thread.

Arrogance is never justifiable.

Nope, that's not arrogant..scientific rigor is not arrogance.

Great arrogance is the hallmark of a leadership and inspires the confidence that gets the rest of us to follow. Otherwise nothing progresses. Great arrogance is worthy of deep respect.

Science is a temple of knowledge and should not be seen to wave at every new comer who wishes to rock the boat. That would lead to science taking notice of people with all sorts of ideas. There are dangerous upstarts who hold that there is no truth, no math, just observations, like me with less than a year of study self taught in a variety of fields.

I don't know which field I haven't taken a potshot at and they all stand pretty firm, not that I have applied any real pressure, that I can safely leave to the universe. Science needs arrogance a positive righteous arrogance if it is to be strong and to show leadership, have the confidence to run full with the wind (and yet being prepared to beach and ride out the storm) so needs to be seen ready at the wheel to bring her hard around if that be the call.

Captains of ancient boats were always an interesting lot and many fine tales told of them. Now if science wishes to attract the next generation of leaders and not just crewmen it needs to promote its great captains with great pride. Science must have direction even wrong direction as lack of direction leads to mutiny (not an option). Youth needs to hear more of the Bligh's and Horatio's of science and be drawn to a life of intellectual heroic adventure.

The boats of science are now an armada and will hold course until the beacon ahead is clearly a lighthouse. There is an amusing story of that happening and a challenge to the lighthouse was issued but that is another story.

Arrogance is such a human trait, I believe the public needs science in all fields to be deeply protective and therefore stable. This way all sciences are beacons and provide the comforting stability we lesser mortals need for our happy, uncomplicated little lives.