BTW mods, if you want to move it, fine with me. But I request that it be added to my other ATM thread, on teleological science, and that it be reopended for a week or so. I was asked in that thread to come up with another astronomical example where the teleological method worked. I had mentioned the GRB in my final post in that thread, as the type of system I had in mind where the teleological method might be applicable. It was because of this teleological method, that I was able to immediately see through Robert Tulip's claim that the GRB is a high pressure system this morning. Before then I had never paid attention to whether the observed rotation was cyclonic or anticyclonic, and couldn't tell you what direction it was. Yet the myth that the Red Spot is a high pressure system has been perpetuated at least four times in this forum alone. There are thousands of registered members on this forum, but because of their view that the GRB is a passive, mechanistic system that blindly follows that laws of physics, the idea that a high pressure system is a poor design wouldn't even occur to them; to them, that the GRB might be different from Earth-bound hurricanes was just one of those weirdnesses you find out there in space all the time. (indeed, it even prompted Robert Tulip to speculate about the relation between the GRB, and the high pressure "storms" we do find here on Earth! ). I, on the other hand, view the GRB as functionally organized because of the history of natural selection it has undergone. Therefore, I was able to independently come to the truth in less than an hour without having to look it up, (though I did indeed try to look it up in order to show up Mr. Tulip--I couldn't find it and still can't). This demonstrates the at least occassional potency of the teleological method. Therefore, I would like to give other forum members the chance to challenge me on this point and show that my experience this morning does not in fact support the use of methodological teleology in the physical sciences.

Besides, the thread on tired light at the time sucked all the oxygen out of the ATM section at the time, and so my thread was really only active for a couple of weeks.

Also, I'd like a chance to respond to Robert Tulip's final comment that he sniped into my thread a few minutes before it was closed.