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Old 12-December-2007, 03:09 PM
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JayUtah JayUtah is offline
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The skeptics among you who need hard evidence, there is hard evidence, the question is, do you believe it?

I don't think you understand what we mean by "hard" evidence.

Of course there is no crashed saucer or alien body that we officially know about...

There is no crashed saucer or alien body about which we know even unofficially. There is only rumor and supposition, just as there is rumor and supposition about the appearance of the Virgin Mary in a tree stump a few blocks from my house.

but some abductees have had pieces of foreign metal removed from there body that was independently verified as metals not natural to this planet.

Not natural doesn't rule out artificial. Most people have detritus in their bodies. I carried a splinter for nearly 10 years, and I still have rocks in my knee from a spill I took when I was eight.

I've read dozens of biopsy claims, and none yet that describes something that cannot have been produced on Earth (e.g., industrial alloys, plastics, etc.) The reports say it's not "naturally occurring," but something doesn't have to be naturally occurring in order to wind up in our bodies. Man-made stuff winds up there too. For some reason, UFO enthusiasts inexplicably believe that if it didn't arise through some natural process, it must therefore be from some space culture.

...just fell from the sky one night and has been verified again to not be a meteor, asteroid, or anything from this planet.

You mean "anything from this planet" that fell within the researcher's imagination. It is impossible to rule out Earth-bound causes completely. Such determinations simply rule out what the researchers believe to be likely candidate causes.

There is a huge difference between, "This isn't any of the ten things I tested for," and "This is something from an alien culture and therefore proof that such a culture exists." Yet the UFO enthusiasts want us to believe the latter. None of what has been presented is what a scientist would term "hard evidence." What has been presented is a conclusion by default or presumption: it's presumed to be an alien artifact until proven otherwise. That's simply the fallacy of begging the question.

Buzz openly admits that during his trip to the moon, they had a UFO follow them, and they have video of it.

Buzz Aldrin's alleged UFO has been covered at length. It hasn't been secret at all. It was a piece of the Saturn V rocket.

That is proof.

No, it isn't. UFO enthusiasts simply tell only the part of the story they want to believe. They omit Aldrin's and others' later statements that the thing they first sighted was later positively identified as the SLA panel. It was unidentified for a while, but only for a while.

To me Buzz Aldrin's words last night were an admission that this phenomenon is at least partly attributed to an extraterrestrial presence.

Not attributed in any way, shape, or form. Nobody except the UFO enthusiasts believes anymore Aldrin was talking about anything but the SLA panel, including Aldrin.

It was later admitted that to this day NASA still has no idea or admission to what this craft was that followed Apollo 11 to the moon.

Completely, totally false. NASA conclusively identified it as the SLA panel based on its trajectory.

Again why all the government interest?

Because during the Cold War the U.S. was understandably paranoid. At first they thought these sightings might have been of Soviet craft of some kind, such as recon drones or combat aircraft. Then they feared Soviets might use some gimmick to create a bunch of sightings that would tie up U.S. air defense while they launched an attack.

The government interest decades ago was simply to see whether these sightings could be tied to any known national security threat. In some cases that could be ruled out affirmatively, because upon serious investigation the real cause was discovered (usually mistaken identification of common phenomena). But the affirmative method is not required. That is, an investigation doesn't necessarily have to determine the actual root cause in order to rule out some other root cause whose ruling-out was the primary activity.

Nowadays, ironically, the criticism is that government isn't interested enough. UFO enthusiasts chalk this up to the government supposedly already having first-hand knowledge of space aliens, therefore no further public research is needed. It's more parsimoniously attributed to the prior interest having been satisfied, and no change in the observations warrants revisiting the conclusion.
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