Quote:
Originally Posted by orionjim
Hanging a weight off the near gimbal would be using gravity and there is one thing you and I agree on and that is in no way can a planet’s gravity exert enough force on the sun to really cause any sizable effect. As I said before what I believe is moving it is the process of the conservation of angular momentum.
If Jupiter and Saturn were connected directly to the sun like the arms extended of an ice-skater starting a spin then when that skater brings their arms in to their side their spinning speed increases. This is the effect of the conservation of angular momentum. There are (at least) two problems with this analogy compared to the sun. The first is the planets aren’t connected to sun like the arms on a skater, but in the model on my website I show how they are connected. The second problem is the sun is so massive that the planets (even if they were connected) wouldn’t be able to speed it up like the skater moving their arms in. The question is what happens to the surplus of angular momentum? The planets are moving close to the equator of the sun and excess angular momentum will push in the direction like the guy pushing on the gyroscope and this pushing force could cause a shift in the poles of the sun.
If you looked at the model I presented it shows what you are asking for and more. The problem is this model is different than your gravity based model and provides a structure that combines the planets into a more connected system than any model that is gravity based only (that I’ve seen). The model I presented is capable of modeling all of the strangeness of the solar dynamo, but on its own does not help with the explanation of the Maunder Minimum. This model needs to separate into two causal systems one for the normal sunspot cycle and the other for special events like the Maunder Minimum. And the physics is there to do this if the model has enough structure to convert excess angular momentum and convert it into tilt. It is the structure and how much more the planets are connected than just being held in place by gravity.
I doubt that the above paragraph is going to satisfy you and I would love to discuss it further but I don’t think doing it on JimP’s thread is the appropriate place to do it. If you want to discuss it further let me know and I will start a thread.
Jim
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You chose to introduce your arguments into this thread. As long as JimP and the mods do not object, I will keep it right here.
The sudden change of the gyro's orientation was not caused by conservation of angular momentum. It was caused by a push from the guy's finger, which you clearly acknowledged. That force caused a redistribution of the gyro's angular momentum and that of Planet Earth, and in accordance with the law of conservation the vector sum of these components remained unchanged.
The Sun and the planets have two angular momentum components each, specifically an orbital and a spin component. If an interaction among these bodies causes a change in the orientation of the Sun's spin axis, that same interaction will cause a net opposite change among the other components and the resultant will be unchanged. That is what conservation of angular momentum is all about. It is part of a description of the properties of the reaction to a force, not the source of that force.
You appear to be arguing that some sort of interactive force could suddenly tip the Sun's spin axis about 90 degrees, cause it to remain pointed at the Earth for about 70 years, and then return it to its familiar position. If that force is not gravitational, then what is it, and how can it be intense enough to cause this action?
Please do not merely refer me back to your site. I looked and it was no help at all. I would prefer to see you try again to show us right here a concise statement of what it is that you think I am missing.
As for the Maunder minimum, I do not in principle see a temporary absence of sunspot activity as being any more strange than the irregularities of our weather cycles, such as the severe drought that has afflicted the southeastern USA for the past few months.