Quote:
Originally Posted by dgruss23
I'm not sure that it would be that simple. The deeper surveys have dramatically expanded the number of quasars at fainter redshifts. Even in some of Arp's more recent papers you find he has to apply magnitude cuts to identify the quasars he argues are associated with local galaxies. You also have to deal with the fact that in Arp's model, quasar luminosity increases as redshift decreases, so quasars at the same distance of a local galaxy would still have a range of magnitudes - perhaps too much scatter for deciding between the models as you've proposed.
|
Yes, it is true that even in the Arp model there will be genuine line of sight apparent associations just as in the big bang model. There need to be measures taken in advance to address this sensibly. In particular, it seems that true associated quasars are at a spacing of the order of 50 kPc from galaxies in the alternative case. This is a reasonable basis for selection to see if it makes the scatter less of redshift versus brightness.
If a suitable survey is used, then the probable number of line of sight pairs can be computed from statistics. If the number found is much greater than that then it already favours Arp. Furthermore, in the alternative analysis, the scatter diagram should show two logical groups, the true associations and the line of sight ones. The true associations should be on a relatively tight line compared to the random line of sight ones.
By reducing the angular separation that is considered a pair, the result should move gradually from a mixture with more random associations to more real associations, thus making the scatter diagram tighter. These are all additional components of the test that make the result clearer.
Quote:
|
But it wouldn't hurt to investigate it and see what you find. You also should look at a paper published in ApJ Letter last year by Morley Bell which contrasts the quasars - which don't seem to show much of a magnitude redshift relation, with radio galaxies - which do show a fairly tight magnitude redshift relation.
|
If there can be found a way to make quasars have a tighter relationship then it must be that it is getting to something more fundamental. Logically, various other attributes can then be developed from quasar measurements to work out accurate indicators of true internal brightness.
Quote:
|
You should also keep in mind that if quasars were shown to be local, that could be interpreted such that the universe expands and there is an underlying Hubble law upon which the quasar intrinsic redshifts would be superposed. So, I'd argue that the answer is "no" - even if there was compelling proof that quasars are local, the Big Bang theory could still be valid.
|
Well, if you can show that huge redshifts can result without any velocity of expansion involved for one class of objects, then it makes sense to abandon it as an idea altogether. Many other problems are then solved.