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Originally Posted by Gillianren
Maybe. But Dutch thinks his cycles have physical referents, if you read his threads. He is wrong. But then, so are you. For one, you have yet to show why there should be parallels in the first place.
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The reason why there should be parallels is that the earth has had a consistent precessional cycle since life began, and it is a reasonable hypothesis that this regular cosmic terrestrial pattern should be exhibited in things which have evolved within it. Dutch uses Platonic solids rather than natural cycles. I can’t see what the scientific basis of his ideas might be.
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Are you falling back on astrology again?
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No.
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Why should astrology work? How does it work?
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This material is consistent with tropical western astrology but does not rely on it. For example, there are exactly sixty Saturn-Neptune conjunctions every 2147 years. This is just one cosmic rhythm which is imbedded in the structure of the solar system, and hence of course the evolution of the earth. I find astrological speculation about the meaning of this and other outer planetary cycles interesting, more so in that they come together precisely twelve times every age.
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A few more direct questions. Should the cycle be evident in the histories of civilizations that have lasted more than 2000 years all by themselves?
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Yes
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If so, have you bothered looking into their history to find the cycle?
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No. If you can present records of equivalent detail to Ancient Rome and the modern West then I would be interested to look at them. China or India may be candidates.
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If so, how closely do they fit the cycle?
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N/A
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How far off do you consider "close enough"?
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This is a complex question. I am arguing that long term causal cycles of the solar system are exhibited in human history, in the only parts of that history where the records are sufficiently detailed to test the claim and where there is an arguable causal dependency between one and the other civilization over a >2147 year period. For example, if we are now at the point of history equivalent to 140BC, then we can look at what happened then to explore possible parallels and lessons. There is an accidental and voluntaristic dimension to history which can distort the sort of deterministic fatalist path implied by the method I am exploring. If a strong personality or ‘great man’ pushes against the tide, as it were, I would think this could significantly shift the outcome. Overall, my view is that the broad parallels between the development of Rome and USA are strong, and that these parallels are exhibited precisely in some cases and with some latitude in others.
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What is required to make two civilizations parallel enough for you to expect to see the cycle?
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That the institutions of one in large part evolved from the institutions of the other.
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If more than one civilization fits your requirements, does that mean that the two earlier (or, I suppose, one earlier and one later) civilizations should parallel one another as well?
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Yes
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If they're on different continents?
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Yes. For example, if records were available, it would be interesting to compare Rome and Egypt.