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Old 12-April-2008, 04:02 PM
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Ken G Ken G is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Durnavich View Post
The representation is being offered as the explanation for why you can recognize things, whether you should bite into a pie, and so forth.
Not "why", how.
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A representation is something that stands for something else. The issue is identifying the means by which "something that stands for something else" enables skilled or competent action.
That is the issue after one has already identified the importance of the concept. Then the hard work can begin.
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It will help if you can list some examples of representations. Clarification of terms will reduce the chance of us talking past one another.
Representations are pretty much the projection of reality onto the ways we conceive of reality, soo come in many forms. The meaning of every word in this post is a representation, and if your representation differs from mine, even subtly, the communication is altered. A photograph is not a representation, it is also something in external reality, but a mental image is. If I can recognize someone, I must have a pre-existing representation of them. What we call familiarity is not the sum of our experiences, it is the sum of our representations.
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I take things like photos, paintings, blueprints, small plastic ships on a war operations room plotting table, and so forth as representations, that is, as things that stand for something else. You appear to be taking anything tangible or otherwise identifiable as a "label" that when present conjures up a "representation."
I imagine three non-overlapping sets: tangibles, labels, and representations. Nothing that is tangible is a representation, but representations are the way we conceive of the tangibles, and labels are how we categorize them efficiently.
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Is there anything laying around the house or the office that you think is such a representation that could be conjured up by a label?
No, only a witch can "conjure up" something laying around the house. Our minds can conjure up representations derived from things lying around the house, and give them labels.

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The representations, then, are the behaviors of the system. Is that right?
No, behaviors are something different, defined and accessed in other ways.
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The best way to understand a pawn is not to study just the pawn piece itself, but to see it in the context of action in an active chess game.
No, that is the best way to understand how a pawn behaves. (And we form other representations for that too.) It all depends on the question being asked-- someone could be enthralled with pawns, study their history and adorn their house with them, and have no idea how to play chess.

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You seem to be using the term "representation" to mean "whatever it is that allows me to do what I do."
No, that would be silly. See above for the definition I'm using.
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It's that what is in the head is pretty much a replica of what is outside the head with the phenomena to be explained such as color added to the inside version.
No wonder you don't like the concept of representation-- you are missing the whole point of what a representation is! A "replica" of what is outside does not "fit" in your head, like a ship in a bottle. A representation is not a replica, that would fail its entire purpose of being something that does "fit" inside our head.
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If we understood everything going on in the head of a pin... we still wouldn't know not to step on the pointy end.

People think the problem with models is that they are limited by our minds, but the greater problem is that our minds are limited by our models.
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