Quote:
Originally Posted by tusenfem
The reason I am dissatisfied is because you claim that there are general relativistic effects on particles and photons inside the sun, generated by Jupiter. If you would read de Jager and Versteegh, you would find that all possible effects that can be caused by gravity are 10-4 of the driving forces in the convection zone where the magnetic fields are created.
|
I presume that this is the paper that you refer to:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/f546880v4q757702/
Quote:
DO PLANETARY MOTIONS DRIVE SOLAR VARIABILITY?
Accepted: 14 March 2005
Abstract We examine the occasionally forwarded hypothesis that solar activity originates by planetary Newtonian attraction on the Sun. We do this by comparing three accelerations working on solar matter at the tachocline level: Those due to planetary tidal forces, to the motion of the Sun around the planetary system's centre of gravity, and the observed accelerations at that level. We find that the latter are by a factor of about 1000 larger than the former two and therefore cannot be caused by planetary attractions. We conclude that the cause of the dynamo is purely solar.
|
They are discussing tidal forces. I am not. I am referring to a GR effect. I thought that you understood the difference in what I was referring to because in my first post I outlined the different mechanisms previously proposed and explained that this was different to any of them.
Quote:
|
Have you even estimated what the GR influence of Jupiter is on a particle inside of the Sun, apart from saying that it is twice the classical value?
|
Yes. I did that in a post in this thread.
It is most easily understood to consider what would happen to a contained collection of photons that were freely able to move relative to the Sun (i.e. that were not interacting with matter billions of times per second). Such radiation would move in an orbit twice as large as the present solar orbit about the baucentre. That is, the motion would be over millions of kilometers
extra to what the Sun itself moves.
From that point, to get to what actually happens there are two things that need to be understood.
1. The component not in the N-S direction is cancelled by solar rotation. That leaves only about 10% of the motion.
2. The radiation and matter in the Sun are constantly interchnaging momentum, so that it is the mixture of the two that will do something. The proportions of the mixture are different at the surface to the core. The proportion of radiation at the surface is extremely small compared to the core. Please see the thread
http://www.bautforum.com/questions-a...s-surface.html for some background concerning this. An estimate of the proportion of the Sun's mass that is radiation is made.
In addition, if the relativistic component of teh Sun's mass also contributes to this doubling effect (as Birkhoff states it does and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then in that thread it is explained that the relativistic proportion of the solar core matter component is actually much greater than the radiation component. So the effect will be several orders of magnitude greater.
Quote:
|
Now suddenly it is the core - mantle system creating a differential rotation. How do you get this, write down an equation of motion of the particles and/or the photons. I have no idea what kind of interaction of photons and matter you mean here. Do you mean photons being absorbed and reemitted? Or do you meat Compton scattering of the photons off the electrons? or or or or
|
It is not
suddenly anything. In my very first post in this thread I stated:
Quote:
|
Because there is a greater proportion of radiation and relativistic matter in the solar core than in the Sun's outer layers, any acceleration by the outer planets would be trying to move the core relative to the outside of the the sun.
|
Quote:
|
Words are nice, but like I say, start at the beginning, and say what you want to do.
|
I have done that. However there is a lot of relevant material so it has taken time to post it all. I have covered it all broadly now. In the following post I summarize what is being said.