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Originally Posted by tusenfem
Sorry, you have give some handwaving arguments and lots of zeros.
I have seen no real math from you.
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The simplest way to get the actual effects on the Sun is to consider the motion of the Sun about the COM of the Solar system and adjust from there. If the centre of the Sun were 100% radiation or relativistic mass content then it would try to move about by 5/3 times as much as the COM. However the component of this motion in the plane of the Sun's equator is cancelled by rotation and has very littel effect.
The component in the N-S direction is reduced by a factor of 10 because the gas giants orbits are inclined by about 6 degrees to the solar equator. Here comes some maths :-) sin(6 degrees) = 0.10 near enough. That means that the N-S motion of the core would be quite substantial, but ...
The part that is most difficult to quantify is the relativistic mass content of the Sun. This is not my problem, but a problem in Solar theory. There is not a good agreement about the time it takes radiation to get from the solar core to the surface. This time is needed to combine with the rate at which radiant energy is leaving the Sun to determine the radiation content. I have seen figures that vary from 10,000 to 10,000,000 years, which is not a lot of help. In the thread that I referred to recently on this question a figure of 170,000 years was mentioned. However this is still possibly not accurate. Additionally it does seem that the matter reltivistic mass content needs to be included and this is more substantial. The answer to an order of magnitude is given in that thread.
Finally, you can multiply the COM movements in the N-S direction after multiplying by 0.10 by this rather uncertain proportion to get the motion of the Solar interior. (more below)
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You seem to be thinking that the influence of Jupiter (classical or relativistically) on particles in the sun is significant, but you have not even taken into account all other forces that are working in the Sun. Yes, you may say that "that is not what I am looking at, I am looking at relativistic stuff," but all the same ALL forces are working and you will need to take them ALL into account.
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Certainly. Existing models of the Sun do not incorporate this effect and assume thatb there is no convection below a certain depth. I did note that since I first proposed this it has been discovered that the actual convection depth is deeper than expected as I would have expected.
Of course this convection must be incorporated into the existing models because it affects heat flow and there will be feedbacks.
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But, I don't think you will come up with anything real here, just correlations, handwaving etc.
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Well it isn't handwaving to show that existing physics does expect this factor to be significant and it should be allowed for in models. It is a known fact that solar models do not actually work totally correctly.
If you denigrate correlations then you denigrate science. That is all science is.
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Like the force of Jupiter off equator, your diagram. Sure, if you would look at one rotation of the Sun, in the end the net force will be poleward, but that is for a couple of day. You then totally ignore how much this acceleration is (no value given) and how much the displacement. At the same time, however, Jupiter is moving too, and your beloved correlation between the sunspot cycle and Jupiters orbital period means that Jupiter will be in the north and in the south, and over one rotation of Jupiter the net result will be zero, just like the effect in the equatorial plane for one Solar rotation.
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Jupiter remains above and below the solar equator for 6 years at a time. Its 11.86 year orbital cycle does show up in the sunspot cycle Fourier analysis along with other periods.
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So, like I said, start at the beginning, and write down the equations. Don't forget that the Sun is not a static ball of gas, but has various zones, and the zone that you should be mainly interested in is the convection zone, where the magnetic field is generated. There your puny Jupiter force needs to compete with the convective forces.
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That puny Jupiter force is sufficient to cause a motion of several kilometers in the solar core over a siz year period. However the calculation depends on the correct relativistic mass content of the Sun which is not known very accurately. If you tell me what that is accurately I will tell the accurate answer.