You spent some time on this. Interesting. Time for me to shut up and study. I do see a similarity to a degree in that right image to some of the photos I have seen. Just for the record I know where Skipper gets his photos. I'm not quite as uninformed as I appear at times. Thanks for taking the time to help Jon. Also, I have listened to Hoagland many times. The likes of him, John Lear and many others are verifiable nuts. My list of nuts grows, but I take my time--tnx again--joe