damian 1727: i would beg to differ on ''fine tuning'' ..as i understand it the universe or our part of it came into being as a quantum event with as we understand at present the constants masses forces getting their values ''at random''. we are here to ask the question so it did happen and the question asked !!

dcl: I know of no reason for supposing that the "quantum event" occurred other than as a spontaneous event. The world is full of spontaneous events. Ancient peoples attributed such events to the actions of capricious gods, but modern people attribute them to sheer chance. I still say that if not for that event, we would not be here to argue about why it happened.

damian 1727: i like it as it suggests many many ''universes''

dcl: I see no reason for postulate other universes, presumably one corresponding to each of the infinity of other alternate events that could have happened but, as far as we are aware, didn't. Suppose that a mouse nibbled at the cheese in a mouse trapped and was caught. The trap could have been defective and allowed the mouse to enjoy its meal and go home to tell its family about it, but that doesn't imply that there is another entire universe in which this actually happened.

damian 1727: sheer chance is not very likely when you look at the odds...

dcl: The fact that it happened nullifies the odds against its happening.

damian 1727: i dont have them in front of me but its like the biggest number you ever saw!

dcl: I agree.

damian 1727: i'll look them [odds against the quantum event's having happened] up if you like

dcl: Don't bother. I agree that the number is horrendously large, but that fact implies nothing about the possible existence of that alternate universe as existing somewhere as a real universe. An alternate universe is only an idea, not something that actually exists. The very word "alternate" implies the actual occurrence of one of a number of possibilities and the nonexistence of all contrary possibilties.