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Old 30-November-2008, 09:06 PM
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mike alexander mike alexander is offline
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Warren wrote:
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To say that it's the case that a particle never really has both a definite position and a definite momentum is pure metaphysics. There is not even in principle a way to decide whether positions and momentums are really discrete or not. I think that was Heisenberg's main point: the HUP was not intended as a description of what particles are really like independent of observers.
I think this is the core of the problem in the discussion. Warren appears to hold as axiomatic that a 'particle' is, well, a particle. By ignoring the wave properties of matter, he seems to want to change the embedded uncertainty to an extreme aspect of observer effect. That there are thresholds below which qualitative differences appear in the behavior of matter/energy is explained away with examples that don't really apply.

For that matter, I could posit that all particles fall in a gravitational field, therefore the molecules of gas in the atmoshpere should be settling to a thin scum on the surface of the earth sometime soon.

I would also mention tunnel diodes and the Lamb shift as consequences of inherent uncertainty at the level of electrons.
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