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Old 30-December-2008, 09:27 PM
Warren Platts Warren Platts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G
Yeah, and one can ask if the universe even "knows" its own initial conditions. Just how much information can fit in one universe anyway? Why should it need an infinity of information just to function? Nothing else seems to.
Wow Ken! I think you might have just changed my mind. If determinism were true, the universe would have to "know" not only its initial conditions absolutely perfectly, but also every other condition in between. And where is this information going to get stored? It can't be in the internal states of particles themselves--there's just not enough of either. So it would have to be in the relations of the particles.

In other words, the "knowledge" of previous states of the universe would be stored in the position and momentum of particles relative to each other.

And here is where the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle comes in. The HUP is not a property or result peculiar to human consciousness. No, it arises because the instruments we use to measure particles are made out of the same sorts of particles that we are trying to measure. Therefore, particles that interact with each other are subject to the same limitation that we are: they cannot "know" the exact position and momentum of their immediate neighbors. Therefore, it is impossible to store perfect "knowledge" of past states within present states. And since nothing can know the past perfectly, nothing can no the future--even in principle. Therefore, determinism is false.

So, you have changed my mind. I now agree that the Bohmian program is forlorn. If it is to have a future in addition to its history, it will have to be reformed somehow to include indeterminacy. It's main saving grace is that it is not content with mere surface, behavioristic, black-box empiricism, and want's to probe deeper. But it will still find uncertainty and indeterminism. The difference between the Bohmians and the Copenhagenists is that they will take indeterminism to not be an inherent, simple property of the universe. Rather, indeterminism is an emergent property of wholes that emerges mechanically from the interactions of parts. But there is a looseness in the parts, and it is this looseness from which indeterminism arises.

Einstein's famous quip was only partially correct: God doesn't play dice, but everything else does.
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