and then comes along deterministic chaos which shows that even for completely deterministic systems you need knowledge of the complete state to predict, which means you can't predict reliably with anything simpler that the system being predicted.

And as HUP limits how much we can measure, in a way it means that whether the universe is deterministic or not can't be determined as we can never know enough to know if any discrepancy between prediction and actual outcome is caused by indeterminism or just insufficient knowledge.

In a way science then becomes the art of identifying those subsets of (possibly syntesized) state variables where useful predictability is achievable and determine the limits of the subsystems, the rules that predict and the limits of the predictability.

An example of what I think of when I say a system of synthesized state variables is the masses of the planets and sun as well as the position and velocity of their centers of gravity.
That makes for a system that has quite high predictability while still ignoring almost all the information in the system, but as the prediction range extends it becomes insufficient because factors that have been left out start to have measurable influence.

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‘To those who regard “crime fiction” as some sacred icon which must follow a rigid formula, I will always be the man who writes 18-syllable haiku.’Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.