...oh my...oh my oh my oh my...break out the cutlery, Martha, it's time to do some fancy carving...I should get a degree in forensic pathology with the dissection I'm about to do here...

The Planet Uranus moves. So the location you 'specify' is going to be moving also, unless you're suggesting that Planet X is tracking Uranus.

12 degrees above a moving position, plus or minus 20 degrees east or west. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig chunk of sky you've delineated there. How about being a bit more specific?

Could be? Could be here, could be there, could be somewhere else...be specific, Pavel. WHERE IS IT?


If, if, if, if...if my aunt had certain characteristics of gender, she'd be my uncle. If it's a dark star, how can it be shining with the light Nancy Lieder claims currently? And if only a big infrared telescope can find it, how are all these people taking pictures of it with webcams? If there are all these variables as to location and composition, why are you spouting about what and where it is in your original post? Either you know what it is and where it is, or you don't.

I have a flash for you, Pavel. I am a volunteer at a local observatory, and have qualified as an operator of a 20" reflector telescope. I have been working there as a volunteer for over two years now. The same organization runs a second dark sky observatory, with permanent installations of 12" imaging and 12" visual observing telescopes. I have been working with members of the group, and they agreed to help me in my examination of claims of Planet X. The people I work with range from the rankest novice backyard stargazer (that would include me) to people with decades of experience and their own personal world-class and internationally-known deep-sky/variable star/asteroid search observatories. They have cooperated with me fully over the years. Results of the searches for Planet X?
Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Goose eggs. L'oeuf. Hard vacuum. Nothing at all.

Something the size of an asteroid, with 25x the mass of Jupiter. We're talking a neutron star or the like, aren't we? And what happened to it being made of dark matter? At that size, with that mass, forget dark matter, you're darn near talking black hole...so what is it? I reiterate: Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Goose eggs. L'oeuf. Hard vacuum. Nothing at all.

Yes, and the observations you're attempting to cite that support your view have been called into very serious question on numerous occasion. The observations show serious deficiencies in interpretation and translation, and in some case their very existence has been debated. In addition, some 'evidence' has been a rather mixed bag from various cultures; as a whole, they seem to present a cogent picture of something, but no individual item can stand on its own -- and if an element can't stand by itself, it sure can't support another element. The whole thing to this point has been a house of cards, and rather poorly built, at that.

Any observation done prior to the time of approximately Galileo (if I remember right), were done naked eye, and there is a definite (and rather low) limit to the size/brightness of an object that can be detected with the naked eye. Besides, a few moments ago you were hollering that PX was 'dark matter', and could only be seen with an infrared telescope. What, it was naked eye back then, big and close enough to be seen, but now it's dead and dark and really far away? And when was the supernova that marked the transition between these two states?

Yes, the motives didn't change, be they artistic, religious, or a combination of them. But as astronomical observations and proof of the existence of Planet X, they are sadly lacking in solid proof. Legends and stories have their origins in something, that we agree on, but the question is, what are those origins? The search for the origins of literary history are as exciting to me as the search for the origins of the universe itself, but those stories do not have the strength to be supporting points for this particular astronomical quasi-happening.

Do I believe they exist? Sure they do. Want a great example of how they're made? Next baseball season, check the pattern mowed into the grass at Wrigley Field. Do I believe that there are little green men on the Cubs' payroll? No.

Objects similar to what? Comets? Shooting stars? Flying saucers? A quick moving light in the sky to the naked eye looks like a whole lot of other quick moving lights in the sky seen by other naked eyes. So somebody saw something. Unless you can conclusively tell me what it was they saw, you can't use these occurrences as the supporting foundation facts of your argument -- and so far, you haven't done that.

That's the Bayeux Tapestry you're referring to, and yes, it's Halley's Comet that's depicted therein. Halley's Comet's regular periodicity was shown from other historical records, observations, and predictions of its reappearance (Edmund Halley didn't discover the comet, he predicted its reappearance, which is why it was named after him.) Where are the supporting observations detailing Planet X's reappearance, and have they been confirmed to be accurate? Once again, the answer is no.

Sorry, Pavel, but current states of my health and exchequer prevent me from traveling at this time, and besides which, if I was going somewhere, I'd make it Atlanta MI to watch my buddies bounce their cars off the trees at Sno*Drift this weekend...but I digress.
Post your 'important proofs' here, Pavel. If your evidence stands scrutiny by those who pass by here, it will start to attain some authority by virtue of that scrutiny.


I note that there's a thread on this subject on the board. I'll be examining that thread with interest.
Well, let's start with the fact that the orbits of the planets show no evidence of having been disturbed by the passage (recurring or otherwise) of an object 25 times the mass of Jupiter, as you state PX is in your original post. Jupiter itself has a measurable and calculable effect on the orbit of Earth, for example...wouldn't something 25 times as massive passing much much closer than Jupiter is have a drastic effect on Earth's orbit? Yet no effect of that magnitude has been shown, for Earth or any other Solar System object. That alone is sufficient to shoot your model down in roaring technicolored flames.

There's Nancy Lieder. There's Zechariah Sitchin. There's you. There's dozens of PX devotees out there, some supporting each other in a very complexly tangled web of claims, some claiming that all the others are full of equine digestive deposits and they're proclaiming The One True Message Of The Stars.

To restate my most eloquently-phrased expression of scoffitude, I say frog snot.

There is no unknown planet of the size and mass stated, on the repetitive orbit named, over the time period commonly stated, that is about to cause The End Of The World As We Know It. There is no evidence that supports this conjecture -- no ancient burial flags, no carpets, no tapestries, no clay cylinders, no cathedral windows, no webcam pictures, no observations, no calculations...Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Goose eggs. L'oeuf. Hard vacuum. Nothing at all.

And by the way, Pavel, while I don't hold it against you that English is apparently not your first language (I believe evidence has been posted that you're from generally what used to be Czechoslovakia), is there a reason that astronomers from your home area have dismissed your claims? I mean, you'd be so much better able to explain your theories in your native language. Why have those people pooh-poohed your claims? Hmmm?

Just a thought...maybe it's because it all adds up to
Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Goose eggs. L'oeuf. Hard vacuum. Nothing at all.

Don't call us, we'll call you.

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.