Indeed it is quiet odd how some threads go off so suddenly at times, maybe putting the word 'Bush' in the title was a bad idea. It seems that sometimes whenever the word Bush pops up some people go off on these type of talk and all of a sudden you have liberals and conservative and republicans and democrats at each others necks and suddenly everyone is talking bad politics instead of bad-astronomy
ops: .
So from now on this thread will be about the ISS and a discussion of the George-plan The discussion of the George vision will focus on the issue of space and if it is possible and issues of safety and cut backs on other projects like the ISS, will this be the way to go to have people on the Martian planet. We will try and discuss if you think the George vision is do-able and possible..that's unless you think it was all an 'election stunt' but then suddenly we are back to bad politics
However if you think George was serious about the vision and was keen on space then we can discuss if this is the correct path, what about finance, are the the right goals, what about the removal of other projects and pulling away from the ISS? :-? Is this vision the right, how about is it going to be safe ? Is this the way to put people on Mars and what about other plans like the ISS getting cut.
Here's how such talk might go
Quote:
News came out recently about the International Space Station partners will increase the outpost's crew to as many as six residents in about five years under a deal reached this week in the Netherlands, NASA officials said today. Administrator Fred Gregory said the partners reached a deal that officially ends the U.S. obligation to provide a habitation module for the extra crew members to live aboard the $100 billion space lab. However, the deal also requires the United States to provide an advanced life support system
I would admit that ISS has some major problems and that it had a very flawed begining. However I'm not to happy to see NASA cut back on the ISS, they're some papers which say NASA are using the Columbia tragedy as an excuse to trim away the money for certain projects. They better not let it burn up because I think that is very silly I had been looking on the plans for a future Mission and possible future projects such as Spectroscopy missions, planet hunting ideas and big scopes in space and many of them had plans for an international effort or at least to have a spacestation by orbiting close to ISS the projects could have been brought alongside every while and have new mirrors and features added. The International Space Station has been riddled with problems but why is that ? Are the problems because of bad planning or is it because of silly politics or the international efforts not working in sync. Some of the major components on the ISS have failed but that I was told was part of the plan. Take for example your car built to last? An automobile can last decades, but you need to change the oil every so many miles, put air in your wheels, brake shoes have to be replaced periodically, put water inside, without the service the car fails and so we should have expected with the ISS. So it's true, everything on ISS was NOT designed perfectly so what do we do now, let it burn up?
In the past we have often heard other announcements for a permanent presence in space, this was declared from other leaders many a time. There have not been many who were sincere or true to their word except for maybe people like Khrushchev , who saw the Cosmonauts go up or Kennendy with great men like Glenn and then the calling for the launching of Apollo to the Moon. Space nowdays has some great programs but it is full of projects getting axed, bad politics and more missions getting cut. If we have always been so keen to get out there they why aren't we doing it, Skylab was wonderful and also if you look at the record of possibly the best known space station called MIR ( the Russian for peace-world-village ) although it was full of problems and got a lot of bad press we still see a fantastic accoplishment a station in outer space that outlived the Soviet Union itself, I think it was a great shame that they allow stuff like this to just burn up
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~chrishtr/23MIR.7.jpg
http://www.cix.co.uk/~dominict/dominic/images/mir5.jpg
I mean if people are so serious about getting into space, and build a type of base out there like a colony on the moon then why couldn't we stick a nice little ion engine or strap a rocket onto the side and send it of to the moon for scrap and cheap parts. There you go you already have one of the big or ugly bulks of your space base built.. I mean there was already enough stuff launched up there costing billions, it a shame just to turn away from it all. There were other areas of space which opened up because of the russian idea, strange coming from a place which was once very Soviet. Dennis Tito the multi millionaire who had worked for Nasa before becoming a businessman, still dreamed the world's most exclusive hotel: the Mir space station. The commercialization of space and opening up of projects so people can have greater acces will become very important in the future of space.
http://www.science-explorer.de/iss-modell-xl.jpg
http://www.space-adventures.de/Images/ISS%2001.jpg
http://www.spaceref.com/images/news/...rprise.iss.jpg
There are some who think NASA should not be pulling back from the ISS, even though NASA is looking hard at safety and somewhat grounded since the tragedy right now we might soon have four different ways of getting into space the Russians might do somethings at NASA's request, the private sector which has been gaining publicity with the Xprize, the Europeans can launch items and the Chinese space agency. NASA could possibly with some modifications deliver equipments with Russian rockets and , NASA could also ask the Europeans to putting more weight and effort into helping out, when some one is in trouble the European friends might lend a hand if the USA tells the ESA to do so, one idea might be to look at the Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) "Jules Verne" which could be a type of cargo ship and might be updated, or each Soyuz-TMA costs about $50M a shot the ISS might be around until 2015 or so, then you simply fly two more per year. The point is if NASA is trying to make cutback and bring back some cash it could save a heck load of money by getting the people like the Europeans or Chinese to come into the international effort some more as these guys have their spending books ok and are able to launch projects at a fraction of the cost of NASA, they seem to be able to put things up at a price that NASA could only dream of. A number have also spoekn against the Bush vision for Mars, two Senators appear to want to extend the orbiter program as long as possible. They say a shuttle type design is the only correct vehicle for finishing the space station and pursuing President Bush's man on Mars objective. The Senators Mr Bill Nelson and Kay Bailey Hutchinson have said first step of this new journey to explore with this new mission is to finish the work on the International Space Station and fulfill the commitment to the US partners and allied nations. Getting people to the Martian surface is also going to be no easy task, even if we had better ion engine drives, high powered rockets, improved nano tech and solar sails we still have to cope with one major problem on getting to the Red Planet and that is the launch window. It's a two year round trip to Mars by a direct minimum energy orbit each direction, with a few month's wait at Mars as well this is because of the orbits of the planet Earth and Mars around the Sun. So no matter how slick or cool our rockets or spaceships are we must first understand how to overcome serious medical problems like those seen by the Russian cosmonauts, for example Musa Manarov and Vladimir Titov spent a record 365 days 59 mins in orbit but experienced many serious medical problems, there is no point in sending people from the USA off on a kamikzae mission to plant a flag in Mars and then never set foot in space gain for many decades for we will learn little. If we are serious about Mars go need to understand the conditions of living in space and these biological human problems will require solutions which research with the International Space Station might shed light on, many of the other current space activities will be necessary parts of any effort to go to Mars, there are other problems which might get in the way of space such as bad politics and finance such as corporate fraud within the USA and the costs of iraq wrecking the stability of the dollar and a budget deficit that is expected to top $500 billion this year alone. President Bush's election year challenge to Nasa was meant to be as inspirational as that set by John F Kennedy in 1961, but it isn't that easy and that is why others have called it an 'election stunt'. With the space race against the Soviets and knowing about space and the moon from the other NASA missions people knew that Kennedy was serious and with great ideas and hard work they were able to put men on the Moon before the Russians. However going Mars won't be much easier now that we have seen probes to the moon and seen NASA have men there. Mars is a very long mission in the darkness of space and we'll need to stay there for a while, working out how the crew will be kept alive for so long without resupplies of oxygen or food; how to protect them from the increased levels of radiation they will be exposed to without the protective blanket of the Earth's magnetic field out there alone in space. Of course there are other hitches like unplanned errors and snags like how you look after people who get ill on the journey without having to carry an intensive care unit and a pharmacy on board the ship. Each area will need considerable work to make it viable for long-duration space flight. I think now is the time for the call of more international efforts in space, and for all of us to continue in the right direction in space.
Reuters news says it might be goodbye ISS
Serious scaledown, internationally agreed(!) so NASA can meet its 2010 goals...
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So please let's try to keep the politics out of this one let's talk about the george vision and the ISS
..and Please don't get my thread locked
