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Old 22-May-2005, 10:12 AM
Sylas Sylas is offline
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Location: Newcastle, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndonashmore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylas
You tell me. It's your absorption reaction.
No, Sylas, this is your calculation here, you tell us.
Shrug. Suit yourself. I told you in the immediately preceding post, but I'll do so one more time.

The time is an absurdly large number, which definitely has no credible significance as the time for Lyndon's reaction. The real time for an absorption has to be far far less than this; and so the number I am using is a valid upper bound.

Because Lyndon does not give quantified values for various essential features in his interaction, and because his interaction is not something covered in any real physics reference, I propose to give the bounds within which Lyndon will have to work, should he ever decide to quantify the time of the interaction himself.

Lyndon has never provided a quantified analysis of energy momentum in which the distributions of energy and momentum are identified, quantified and balanced, excepting only the time that he introduced a variable electron rest mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndonashmore
What physical significance does the time between collisions have to the time for collision?
I did not use the time between collisions. I used the travel time between particles, which is about the duration for which a photon is closest to one particular particle of the plasma. The alleged absorption interaction has to resolve itself well within this time, given the need to conserve momentum and energy. It's also time enough for 2000000 cycles of the photon frequency. That's a huge upper bound for the time it takes a photon to be absorbed.

Quote:
If you have no clue about what the quantities involved are, then why do the sums and, more to the point, why post it?
Because it suffices to show that even if Lyndon allows a very large amount of time for the alleged duration of the electron-photon collision, it still will not be enough time to transfer any significant amount of energy and momentum to other particles in the plasma.

The point is that photon absorption by electrons in rarefied plasma is not physically possible. The energy momentum budget cannot match.

To review, the various proposals Lyndon has given in an attempt to find some other energy or momentum sink are as follows:
  • Variable electron rest mass. The only one quantified, and a simple error in particle physics.
  • ”Steadying” of the electron with emission of a microwave photon. Fails by a bit over three orders of magnitude.
  • An oscillation of individual electrons. Does not actually give any extra energy term; the energy of any induced oscillation of the particle is the same as the kinetic energy given in a collision, and which has already been taken into account.
  • A transfer of energy to other particles in the plasma as density oscillations or phonons. This fails by many orders of magnitude as well, because the forces between particles in the plasma, and the duration of the collision, is far below what is required to makeup the mismatch in the energy momentum budget. This was the point of the most recent analysis.

By the way, in my view the really ridiculous part of my analysis is where I summed the magnitudes of forces. Sometime I'll give a stronger bound, taking an upper bound on the forces by having all positive particles in one half of the Debye sphere, and all negative particles in the other. This will also give a huge upper bound; but that's all we need to show that Lyndon's absorption reaction is physically impossible.

Does anyone have a physically sensible model for the forces that will be felt on a particle from its neighbours within the Debye sphere? It should be a continuously changing force as nearby particles are moving with the termal energy, a bit like a Brownian motion, but from electrical interactions.

Cheers -- Sylas

PS. This is certainly back of the envelope stuff, which is far better than vague and dubious analogies with no numbers. It really only takes quite elementary physics to see the errors in Lyndon's physics. Some of it, like the notorious errors in dimensional analysis, is early high school level. Other errors involve more advanced concepts, but can be resolved without getting into very difficult analysis. All in all, a good learning opportunity for people who want to try their hand and finding errors in crank physics.