View Single Post
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 30-June-2005, 05:03 PM
papageno's Avatar
papageno papageno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Silicon Saxony
Posts: 3,200
Send a message via MSN to papageno
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna2uno
Thanks papageno for your response. My purpose for entering this hypothetical question on the Equivalence Principle here (rather than Against the Mainstream, per Lunatik & Jerry) is not to argue for a variable G, which would be speculative, but to consider how such a (hypothetical future) discovery would affect our measure of mass in kilograms. Which kilograms would we use, and how would they be affected? Your response addresses how kilograms work at 1 G, which is known, but how would this change if we found a variable G, at 10G for example? Or would it not change at all, and still preserve equivalence?
Equivalence principle and the value of G are independent from each other.
Do not confound mass and weight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna2uno
To my thinking (and I must admit I really do not know the answer to this hypothetical question on measuring mass under a variable G scenario), the kilograms we developed in our 1G universe are in part a function of gravity, mainly Earth's gravity, so we can weigh things in kilograms. The Equivalence is that this same kilograms applies to F = Ma, as you pointed out, so we can measure inertial mass with the same unit. I believe it was Einstein who thus resolved that gravity and inertial mass are linked, which we know as the Equivalence Principle. So the question remains, in a hypothetical variable G, would the kilogram units remain the same, or forced to change?
It would be the same.
The Equivalence principle is based on experimental results. Einstein decided to elevate to the status of postulate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna2uno
I would think this is a valid astronomy-physics question, in anticipation of some point in the future that our distant space probes, or other observations, yield a variable G. To date, this has not been observed, to my knowledge.
I explained it to Lunatik.
If G depended on positions, the mass of an object would not be affected, but the gravitational force would be.
A different force would give a different acceleration, because the inertial mass has not changed.
But this problem is no more exotic than a variable dielectric constant in electromagnetism (which gives us refraction, and lenses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna2uno
Perhaps this question of measurement in kilograms (at this point a merely philosophical question since we have not confirmed any change in Newton's G from its universal constant) should be explored in the event we find the universal G is something else. We must allow for nature to be a tricky place, so she might throw us a surprise. Would we know what to do with our units of measure of mass at that point if she did? :-?
Yes, because the experiments used for the units would not change their outcome if we found something new.
__________________
papageno


"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" - Hobbes (Calvin and Hobbes)

"It's all about context!" - Vince Noir (The Mighty Boosh)

"I've never heard of such a brutal and shocking injustice that I cared so little about!" - Zapp Brannigan (Futurama)
Reply With Quote