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Originally Posted by The Bad Astronomer
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Originally Posted by Michael Mozina
Actually I'm pretty sure it creates the hydrogen and it doesn't really hang on to it. The helium however is another very interesting issue. That element only seems to form in the presense of a supernova explosion,
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Now I must admit this statement has me baffled. How does the Sun create hydrogen, the simplest element there is? Or are you saying it's created as a byproduct of some other reactions, and does not occur "naturally" in the Sun, that is, primordially? Am I missing another explanation? |
From BBSO images, I would have to say that hydrogen seems to be created in the calcium ferrite interactions at the "surface". In other words, the electrical activity from the surface ionizes the ferrite and in this process hydrogen is created. That calcium ferrite interaction does seem to be generating these ions. That hydrogen is a byproduct of the electrical activity and calcium/ferrite interactions. There are of course other elements involved and seen in the SERTS data, so it could be more complex than simply ferrite ionization that releases the hydrogen. Either way, its a byproduct IMO, not a core element.
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And to say that helium only forms in (or near, you're not clear above) supernovae is very odd as well. We know that simple fusion of hydrogen can create helium (and there are more complicated processes as well), and this occurs at relatively low pressures and temperatures as compared to the inferno of a supernova. Temperatures and pressures that are reasonable in, say, the center of a star.
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You are right, that was sloppy wording on my part. It's late my time and I should get some sleep. What I should have said is that there is a "specific kind" of helium that is only seen in connection with with special xenon, and supernovae. It can be created several ways, but only one way that is related to special xenon and supernova explosions. It can fuse as well as you point out. I doubt however that enough helium fuses from the electrical activity at the surface to sustain that layer for very long were it not for the presense of the neon to keep things relatively stable.
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So why would you make these statements? Is this elaborated upon in your website?
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The hydrogen byproduct idea is explained on my website, but I believe my helium fopah was limited to this thread.
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And a third thing: you seem to be saying that the elemental abundances in the Sun should mimic that of comets. This is certainly not a logical step to take, as we know very well that different bodies in the solar system are chemically differentiated. Jupiter is almost entirely H, He, methane, water, and ammonia, for example,
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Actually the composition of Saturn and Jupiter aren't well understood, and these statements are based on gas model "predictions", not direct observation. If you could point me to spectral data on the Shoemaker-Levi 9 explosion, I'll bet well find plenty of heavy elements, both from the comet and Jupiter itself. That comet hit something that was VERY dense indeed, and at not a very great depth either.
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while Mercury is for more abundant in heavier elements. Just their densities show this very well. Mercury is more than 4 times as dense as Jupiter. They cannot possibly be made of the same thing. Mind you, these densities have been measured directly via spacecraft.
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They may not be composed of exactly that same thing. Mercury may contain xenon for all I know. The thing here to note is that the composition of Jupiter is based on gas model predictions, not upon direct observation. If the gas model is wrong, then so is the assumed composition of Jupiter. It may be mostly iron, whereas Mercury may be mostly gold. I really don't know. I can only know what I can "see" and what makes sense based on the laws of physics. Physics tells me that given a bunch of heavy material floating around in space, gravity will cause this material to cluster, and it won't much differentiate between light and heavy materials. Whatever is around is going to get sucked in. That is logical. To presume only lighter elements will go one way, and heavier ones will go another would not make much sense IMO.
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Comets and the Sun are very different bodies: different sizes, different temperatures, and we're pretty sure they formed in very different regions of the solar nebula. Why would you assume they would have the same elemental composition?
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Let's turn that around. Why would I assume they would not have the same composition, particularly in light of recent evidence that our solar system is recycled material from a supernova?
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Perhaps I have missed some important steps here, as I have not read everything on your website. If you have links, I'll read them.
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I frankly appreciate your attitude and your desire to understand the ideas that I am trying to convey. I really do appreciate it. I'll have to head for bed soon, but I do wish to continue this conversation until you finally feel compelled to move this thread from the "Against the Mainstream" forum over to the "General Astronomy" forum.
