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Old 16-July-2005, 09:38 PM
Staiduk Staiduk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicboy
Troodon

Smartest dinosaur ever found.

http://www.allaboutspace.com/subject.../Troodon.shtml
We don't know that troodontids were the most intelligent; they merely have the biggest braincase-body mass ratio. While this is a telling factor; it isn't a certainly.

The problem with thinking about a possible dinosaur civilization is that we a) don't know anything about dinosaurs - we don't even know what they looked like; apart from general body structure and a few skin samples. Myth, assumption and supposition are the words of the day. For instance - the assumption that dinosaurs were big.
They weren't, really. Definitely; some were big - the huge apatosaurs, T-rex's (I hate that term) etc. Stegosaurs (my fave) were giants as well.
The vast majority of dinos were much smaller though - man-sized or less (most were dog sized). It's in this region that any dinsaur intelligence - however that is defined - seems to max out.
Another myth that really took off after Jurrassic Park - that dinos were birds.
Forget it. They weren't birds - they shared birdlike qualities and certainly some species of dinosaur shared a root ancestor with birds; but keep in mind that birds existed simultaneously with dinosaurs.
Saying dinos are birds is like saying Humans are shrews. (No jokes... )
Another myth yet - ant this is the biggest one - is that here was one type of animal called 'dinosaur'. There wasn't. 'Dinosaurs' were not one particular type of animal with widely-varying body types; they were an entirely different class of creature. I think it's safer to think in terms of a completely different classification - somewhere between kingdom and phylum - for the creatures rather than trying to fit them into the 'lizard' category or some such.

We do know a few things; because we can draw parallels from modern times. Predators are smarter than herbivores. They have to be - they must hunt their prey - that takes practice, preparation, planning. They are also much less numerous than herbivores - again; they have to be; or there'd be not enough food. IIRC the optimal predator-prey ration is about 1-10.
While we don't know coeleurosaurs - the infraorder to which troodontids, raptors, etc. belong - were truly intelligent; I personally prefer to believe so. But so saying; were they intelligent enough to create a civilization?

No. IMO.

Look at dolphins. BY FAR the most intelligent so-called 'animal' nonhuman species of which we are aware. No civilization. Why? No need. They have their family groups; they swim, hunt, grow, travel, breed and thrive in the ocean - they don't need civilization.
Let's imagine for a moment that troodons were really smart - even smarter than dolphins. Civilization? No way.

The important point here is not brains; it's need. Humans developed civilization because we as individuals cannot survive for long. We need to band together to help one another.
Even when done so; we didn't advance far - huning groups were very small; perhaps 20 or so individuals; tops. Gatherers, small as well. We didn't thrive until we learned to modify the terrain to suit us - to take seeds of a useful plant and grow them for future use.

In other words; civilization started with agriculture.

Agriculture - and later, farming - allowed humans to come together in much larger groups. It gave not only enough food; but also a surplus; so people not immediately involved in food gathering - IOW getting their own food - could live as well. The elderly, the pregnant, the injured. etc. Also those with specialized skills could concentrate on those skills without having to be distracted by foodgathering. Skills like making fire or building. Or clothmaking.

See; civilization arose because we needed to modify our environment; not just because we were smart.

Back to the troodons - OK; they're smart. But did they modify their environment? No - they just lived in it. No civilization; no need for it. Brains - almost certainly tool-users in some way or another; but no underlying need for complex social interaction and large-scale environmental control.

QED.

Cheers!
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