Y'know what? I was doing some thinking, and I wish to put forth a new point on an old discussion. I'm tired right now, and VERY bad tempered, but I'm tired of being judged based on my lack of religion.

Sticks, I'm going to say it outright: You offend me. The argument you put forth -- that religion is necessary for morality -- at the level you have argued it, is FAR more insulting than Crum's was (I'm still debating with Crum via e-mail, in a way, and I must admit, he is rather enlightening in his viewpoints).

Sticks, you WILL NOT change your religion when I tell you about the Crusades, and how many Christians, Catholics, and Muslims slaughtered each other, women, and children, in the name of Religion. You WILL NOT change your religion when I tell you that Hitler was a devout Catholic.

You WILL NOT change your religion when I relate to you hospices run by priests, where sexual predation was rampant, and those inside were ill-treated.

You would say that those are exceptions, and that religion was NOT RESPONSIBLE for what they did.

Yet you expect me to sit here idly, while you go on about ONE INCIDENT of a town run by Atheism -- I might add, it seemed to have been run peacefully, and it still had charities -- charities that ran for TEN YEARS before falling apart -- and you expect me to suddenly go, "WOW! That's evidence that religion really IS needed for morality!"

That offends me. It's a double standard! You won't accept that when "evil" men adopt your belief, that it affects your belief, but you expect me to assume tha Atheism is bad, because of good charities falling. It's a double standard, it's hypocritical, and quite frankly, it's insulting.

... do you get my point? I really hope you do, because if not, I'm unsubscribing to this thread for my own mental sanity.

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I'm an engineer. I've produced many ideas that have beauty, but only a few that have truth. The difference is important, and truth is discovered only in a harsh and unyielding crucible. It's up to you what you propose to value. -- Jay Utah

Check out my writing, maybe.