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Old 24-February-2006, 09:15 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by clj4
This is clearly not the case, this concept (which belongs to Ritz) has been refuted experimentally multiple times in the past 100 years. You have been given ample proof in another thread, you are simply reopening the same discussion

Have we been conned by Einstein?

using an experiment (Sagnac) this time.
Here is one of the many refutations of the 'c+-v'.

http://imaginary_nematode.home.comca...echer_1977.pdf

Here is one of the many correct explanations of the Sagnac experiment:

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm


You just opened another identical thread and you got plenty of explanations here:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=112002
(bold mine)

The 'refutation' of Sagnac experiment may be spurious, in that it involves 'renormalizing' relativistic proper Time, where the difference in 'travel time' is adjusted. In effect, we have time factor=(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2 in one direction, while we have time factor=(1+v^2/c^2)^1/2 in the counter direction. If you make 'proper Time' variable, you get around the fact that it will take less time in one direction and more time in the counterdirection. Or, as the paper referenced says:
Quote:
Of course, the result represents the time difference with respect to the axis-centered inertial frame. A clock attached to the perimeter of the ring would, according to special relativity, record a lesser time, by the factor y = (1-(v/c)2)1/2, so the Sagnac delay with respect to such a clock would be [4Aw/c2]/(1-(v/c)2)1/2. However, the characteristic frequency of a given light source co-moving with this clock would be greater, compared to its reduced value in terms of the axis-centered frame, by precisely the same factor, so the actual phase difference of the beams arriving at the receiver is invariant. (It's also worth noting that there is no Doppler shift involved in a Sagnac device, because each successive wave crest in a given direction travels the same distance from transmitter to receiver, and clocks at those points show the same lapse of proper time, both classically and in the context of special relativity.)
Once you adjust Time, you get the relativistic effect desired. How can it be claimed to falsify the experiment, if the experiment is designed, using relativity, to achieve invariant results? The only clue you get something is variant (in Sagnac experiment) is in the Doppler lightshift.

That said, I stand to be corrected if I got it wrong.
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