I have been involved with some very long, dragged out "discussions" with various pseudoscientists on this board and others. Regulars here will remember who I mean. They go on and on, ignoring any real issues, use name calling, and claim that because they don't understand something (whatever it might be) it must be wrong.

They are irritants. They poke and poke and poke, and when you finally snap they claim victory. It is extraordinarily rare that they make a valid point.

In this case, the mistake Jay made was not in facts, but in posting a review of something he hadn't seen. Yes, that was a mistake, and I understand why he did it, but as he has already said that doesn't make things any better. The real problem, as others have already pointed out, is that the HBs can use this to their advantage, even when they are still factually wrong.

It's a losing fight sometimes. I try not to convince the True Believers, because their faith blinds them. I stay calm, rational, and phrase what I say to talk to the folks sitting on the fence. They are the ones who concern all of us. They still have a chance to see reason.