Quote:
Originally Posted by dgruss23
Why is it against the BAUT ATM rules for David to ask for some help with his ATM idea? And if he's not allowed to ask in ATM, then where on BAUT is someone to go when they want to discuss a speculation that is ATM? I don't see anything in the rules that says a person is not allowed to ask for feedback/help on their ATM speculations:
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A quandary indeed.
I'm currently having discussions with a moderator (hi!) about this, but probably not on the side you want. I'm feeling upset about a lot of the ATM I feel like I'm seeing, more and more lately, in Q&A. And, it's hard to describe the problem. I do like people to ask questions. Learning is a good thing. But, I think there are ATM proponents taking their questions to Q&A not really for the purpose of getting answers -- though I think they'll always welcome answers that support their views -- but for advocating their ideas in a less hostile place. My indication of this is the typical pattern I see: a question (sometimes carefully crafted to get supporting answers); usually appropriate mainstream answers, as expected in Q&A; and then come the ATM assertions, statements, arguments in support of the ATM position, persuasion, pleading. It's almost comical. Wish I could laugh.
Now these ATM statements, these arguments, arrive in the midst of apparent questioning, so one could view them as mere clarifications of the original question. But, the skeptical side of me is... skeptical. I really must suspect they are offered only to persuade. And such championing of ATM ideas has a place and it is called ATM.
I strongly feel Q&A should be reserved for earnest questions.
As for this particular instance, if the quoted material comes from ATM, then this topic,
Examples of Barred Galaxy Research, in Q&A may have been the result. It didn't go on long (so far), like many ATM-based Q&A topics do, but it didn't take long for the proponent to stop asking questions and start stating opinions. Who needs it?
In case it's not clear, I really don't mind when an ATM proponent asks a question in Q&A. But, why, why, why do they so often then take (or ignore) the answers and just begin arguing their case? Can't they ask what's wrong without trying to tell us what they presume is right? There's a place for that. It's still ATM.
It would be sad if they had no place at all to flesh out their ideas. But, I'm happy to agree with Nereid that ATM should be for the promotion (and attack) of ATM ideas, not the research, not the brain-picking development, not the mere speculation, not the call for improvements. No problem. That makes ATM a more pleasant, productive place. However, I think I disagree with Nereid that ATM-questions should be encouraged to happen in Q&A -- simply because it so often seems to turn from questions into promotion. It shouldn't, but it does; people can't seem to help themselves; they are on a mission.
ATM speculation I think is welcome in appropriate science subfora. But, there it is similar to the Q&A problem. Speculation might not be labeled well as being speculation; tentative could-be statements are followed by must-be assertions. It shouldn't, but it does; people can't seem to help themselves; they are on a mission.
Q&A is probably where someone should be able to ask about an ATM idea, but the very moment the opportunity is turned into promotion, at the instant of advocacy, the hammer should fall, hard. I'd be OK with that. It would make Q&A a much more pleasant and useful place for people who actually do want to learn. Same with ATM speculation elsewhere. Moderators should be more skeptical of intent and enforce the rules, with vigor.
However, I'd just as soon the ATM matters be quarantined to ATM, a forum I mostly avoid, be it claims, questions or speculation. Not much interested, thanks. Meanwhile, the denizens of ATM may want the questions and speculation elsewhere. They're not much interested.
It's a big Internet. Does it have to happen in BAUT?