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Old 29-May-2003, 09:55 PM
BigJim BigJim is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Jersey, Earth
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Want some more Voronity? Try http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/skies/skies2.htm Be warned: reading this article may cause you to curse and throw things at your computer. I'll have a review of this one up on Clavius in a short while.
Speechless at this garbage- I wasn't going to debunk it, but it is so stupid that I just have to add a few comments for giggles:

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For example, one of the most modern Russian carrier rockets, Titan-4, which is approximately equal to the Space Shuttle carrier rocket by its parameters, is able to carry only about 17.5 tons of weight.)
As far I know, the Titan is a U.S. rocket. Maybe it's changed hands recently.

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The official story of American flights to the Moon says that the larger command module rocket "Columbia" remained in lunar orbit while the lunar module "Eagle" separated and descended with firing retro rockets to the lunar surface. The astronauts exited "Eagle" to take pictures and recover lunar material from the surface. They then returned to the lunar lander module to return back to the "Columbia" command module. The "Columbia" broke out of lunar orbit to go back to Earth and splash down with parachutes.
At least this guy understands the difference between the CM and LM, unlike my favorite hoaxist.

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"Eagle" weighed about 16 tons, or about 5,500 pounds if we mean lunar gravity. To launch satellite of such a mass, at least an Ariane-5 class rocket is needed. But if even it is a Dnepr-1 class rocket, then the mass of rocket for launching 5,500 pound "Eagle" from the Moon would be about 35 tons (211/6). Before launching "Eagle" from the Moon, a 35-ton rocket itself needs to be delivered to the Moon.
Are we on Earth on the Moon? He keeps switiching. There is a difference between the requrements for launching into the LEO and the requirements for launching into lunar oribt. It's not as if gravity is the only factor; there is no air, and the lunar launching sites were usually near the lunar equator (at least Apollo 11's was, and that's the mission he's using). And you don't just divide the mass of a rocket by 6 to find out how much less take-off mass you need on the Moon. also, he fails to note that only the ascent stage lifted off and the ascent engine, with a thrust of 10,000 pounds IIRC (correct me, I know that can't be right), was simply adequate for launching the ascent stage. He's also mixing up mass and weight so much that I'm getting lost.

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Plus, launching satellites even of this mass requires deploying a launching site. How was such a site deployed on the Moon?
By using the descent stage. What, may I ask, sir, would you need a launch site on the Moon for? There is no ground crew, no fueling, no rollout, no erection of the rocket required.

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If even we suppose that several carrier rockets like "Columbia" could deliver all this to the Moon in several lunar module "Eagles" (seems this should have been a very hard task for such modules to land on the Moon since the Moon has no atmosphere, which diminishes the speed of similar modules when these land on the Earth),
Gasp. This guy is really more nuts by an order of magnitude than Nasascam. He keeps switching around the body we are on - but this quote contains my favorite statement. I have absolutely no idea what to say to this idiocy:

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(seems this should have been a very hard task for such modules to land on the Moon since the Moon has no atmosphere, which diminishes the speed of similar modules when these land on the Earth),
We are in one-sixth G! The lack of an atmosphere makes it easier to land- no air to worry about! Air resistance would not appreciably slow the LM, and it was not a factor on the LLTV and the LLRV. Let me say again: IT IS MUCH EASIER TO LAND IN ONE-SIXTH G THAN IN ONE G.

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then how was, for example, the Lunar launching site deployed? On-site by astronauts in spacesuits?

And why was all this praiseworthy process not shown on the photos or videos? Where are photographs of such a praiseworthy achievement like the Lunar launching site?
Ugh. There was no "launching site" other than the LM. And there are countless photos of the LM. If he's that confused, he needs to see the luanr launch videos taken by the LRVs on the J missions. This guy possibly is the most [calm down] uninformed [/calm down] fellow I have ever seen.


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And if somehow no launching site construction was required to take off from the Moon, why are there no photographs or videos of the spacecraft taking off from it?
There are.

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Wasn't it possible to take photos or videos of the spacecraft taking off from the Moon, from the "Columbia" rocket?
Why does he keep calling the CM a "rocket?" And it was not filmed from the CSM, but from the LRV, and there are no less than three videos of LMs launching from the lunar surface. Jay, does Clavius have them?

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Did the NASA astronauts return to "Columbia", "which remained in lunar orbit", using the rope that was hanging out of it?
Is this point made in jest or not? This guy is such a fool that I can't tell.

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And where are the Russian photographs and videos dedicated to their "Lunar takeoff" preparations?
All I can say is:

??????

I couldn't satire the hoaxists better if I tried. Is he aware that the Soviets did not land on Luna?

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Unless we assume that by 1969 NASA could build an antigravitation craft (aka antigrav, starcraft, starship, and flying saucer), for which all the described obstacles don't exist. (Such a device is not necessarily able to fly to stars; intersteller travel depends on the device's capacities, i.e. it is the starcraft's construction that determines whether it will be able to fly to stars, or only to the Sun system's planets and planet satellites.
Antigravitation ship, huh?

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This seems more plausible, taking into account that the American flag, and a plaque with inscriptions on it next to the flag, are reported, by many persons who visit observatories, to be clearly seen on the Moon surface.
Really? How interesting, since it is not physically possible to see the LM, much less anything, from any other observatory, Earth or space. Clementine didn't have the resolution to clearly image the LM.

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Or did NASA borrow antigravs from an extraterrestrial civilization (Zetas Reticuli, hominoids from Orion, or maybe those who mutilate cattle)?
I knew we'd get the Zetas in here somewhere!

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One detail suggests this might have occurred: one of the astronauts, during the first flight to be transmitted by television, said on air that he was seeing giant artificial objects.

Perhaps the aliens imposed this as a condition for NASA's lease of their craft: to have NASA astronauts say something on TV that would prove to viewers that the astronauts had met craft from another civilization?
Uh-huh.

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This may be confirmed by the following fact: several years after the moon landing, the American Congress acknowledged the existence of extraterrestrials in a special report.
Yep. Sure they did.

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Or maybe NASA astronauts did visit the Moon (in the antigrav) and recorded all that which is claimed to be lunar photos and videos, but they were of such a poor quality due to some details of lunar atmosphere and climate that NASA decided to order new "better looking" photos/videos from Hollywood? Then we may understand why there are such errors in them...
Interesting- I didn't know the Moon had an atmosphere. And that is a very poor quality photo compared to some of the better ones out there (which number at least in the hundreds). And doesn't he earlier claim the LM couldn't have landed because the Moon doesn't have an atmosphere? Sheesh.

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I think Russians, shocked by such a "challenge" from NASA, in turn invented their own "success story" about "flying to the Moon" and "taking samples of lunar rocks" by their "unmanned" "Lunohods".
There were Luna (or Lunik) probes and Lunokhods 1 and 2. Lunokhod did not return samples. "Lunohod" was not a spacecraft. Is he implying that they are manned or something?

Gee. How bizarre do these guys get?


Oh yeah, one more thing. The Shuttle does run on oil engines. I've seen the engineers putting gasoline in the cargo bay (the ET carries aliens and the shuttle's antigrav, the real engine). By the way, has anyone seen my antigravitational spacecraft? I seem to have misplaced it. Oh! There it is, right next to my recording of an astronaut on one of the Apollos reporting large artificial objects.
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