I've had trouble confirming resenmut's results with my Persian hall carpet but my examinations have found information that helps explain the retrograde orbits of some of Saturn's moons. :wink:

Perhaps the carpet is not from the early 20th century as I originally thought! That might explain the anaomalies.

Why is it that i can never quite understand the things spewed by pseudoscience nuts; is my vocabulary too small, or do they just make up terms as it suits them? =|

I too have reviewed Resenmuts data and thought there was something missing.
After a few minutes thought I realised all I had to do was to swap around my swirly pattened kitchen carpet tiles to resemble resenmut colourful orbit diagram and the answer should just jump out at me... and if I just put the last one in place now.... (gasp)...I...I...don't believe...Oh My God... call the president...call the prime minister...we're all going to...to...just carry on as normal, like we've always done.

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81.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

The latter. They make it all up as they go, to fit their worldview into reality. Just look at Nancy Lieder's increasingly tortuous verbal attempts to reconcile the lack of PX with her conviction that we're all soon to die.

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The Sedna and Planet X chart looks like a circularized and ellipticalized version of Hoagland's Cydonia chart. Contains about the same amount of valuable data.

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Pavel!!! YOU"VE DONE IT!!! You've plotted the orbit of Planet X! This means you know where it is! Okay, now let us have it! RA! Dec!...

...Az/Alt at UTC?...

...sign of the Zodiac?...

...fist widths off the horizon at sundown?...

...+/- above/below the ecliptic?...

...something?...

...anything?...

ENOUGH WITH THE PSEUDOSCIENCE ALREADY! POINT US WHICHEVER WAY IT IS! SHOW US PLANET X!

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Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

I suppose that by you (JPL, Caltech, Gemini) ...calculated eliptic motion of Sedna is actually composit of real near circle motion of
Sedna (around Sun) and of appearent motion, which is motion of us toward Planet X.
After it
if Sedna would be after 72 years in perihelia 7AU closer than is  now so her relative speed toward Sun is circa
400m/s. This is also speed of opposite motion of Sun toward X. according my calculations is X 1/40 of Sun's
mass so after it is speed of X  40.0,4km/s=16km/s.
from it and according my other calculations from previous webs must X be now next to Uranus direction
Saturn, +-10 degre ecliptic?
according ancient descriptions, depictions from oriental carpet must X be dark matter object, maybe it is part
of neutron star destroyed by black hole, sort of MACHO object....
If  Sedna's distance should be max 10AU closer to Sun in its perihelia than it is now, so actual position of X
must be circa 10AU from Sun...+3AU what is circa distance from intersecion of ecliptic and X's orbit plane to
Sun.
In part of X's path near to us is this path curved like jing jang sign due to big mass of X. X here has got path
very other than comets...
These thinks are but orientational calculations.
I try to calculate similar things from Pluto's orbital changes now...
There is shift of real apparent motion of Pluto on sky toward calculations for speed, path how should there be. Pluto's speed on its orbit should be determined quite precisely but values have systematic mistakes. It makes some percents for Pluto's speed which is circa 5km/s.
If opposite motion of Sun toward Planet X is around 400m/s so these Pluto's path, speed deviations are realy in values some percents!
This is why NASA can determine Pluto's path only for 50 years forward.
Let me know your desidions, ideas...
Give me high accurate data for orbit, path, apparent positions for Pluto on sky, among stars from last 50 years and i tell you where X is.

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senmut

1/40th of the mass of the SUN? Sorry that's very difficult to believe, the sun is SO large that it contains more than 98% of the mass of the solar system. IF Planet-X existed AND it had 1/40 of the mass of the sun the perturbances in ALL planetary bodies in the solar system would have been so large that they would have noted at least since the 17th century. The biggest "puzzle" regarding orbital mechanics (that I have heard about) was whether or not there was a 10th planet in the solar system because of slight inconsistencies in the orbits of Uranus and Neptune, AND those inconsistencies were explained about 10 years ago when Pioneer 10 reached the outer planets, as mentioned in this site:

So, again I find the fact that the mass of Planet X would 1/40th of that of the SUN EXTREMELY hard to believe. To paraphrase Charlie: "Male Bovine Refuse"

Here you will find software to compute the astronomical positions of almost any celestial body. If you prefer not use that software here is a site that will generate the info for you.

Good Luck

[Editted for Spelling]

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Resenmut wrote:

"...according ancient descriptions, depictions from oriental carpet must X be dark matter object, maybe it is part
of neutron star destroyed by black hole, sort of MACHO object...."

My oriental carpet, an Orion "HallRug 3000" with the optional Deep Space Photon Weave, has the cross-hatched twill inserts and thus can't depict dark matter with any accuracy.

Seriously, is anybody else getting the distinct impression our collective legs are being gently (and quite cleverly) pulled?

I mean really -- wandering objects with 1/40th a Solar mass? Carpets? Dark matter neutron stars destroyed by black holes?

#-o

I love the concept that Planet Ex is pulling us all (you know, the whole solar system) toward it at the same rate despite the different distances. I'd expect Saturn and Jupiter to be way, way, way off their predicted orbits by now if the whole "motion of us toward Planet Ex" thing were real.

So, now I'm really confused. Is Ex a brown dwarf? A white dwarf? A mangled neutron star? At 1/40 the mass of the Sun, it's definately not a brown dawrf. But why was the white dwarf passed over? Is it not as cool as a partial neutron star? Keep that up, and soon we'll have a white dwarf strike on our hands. Then what will we do?

Incidently, I think I found Ex on my carpet. Or it might be a bit of crud that got worked into the fibers.

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Could you clarify what you mean by "composit of real near circle motion"? Everything I've seen so far suggests extremely elliptical motion, which won't track in anything like the same way after just a few observations.

Funny, I get around 4,600 m/s at perihelion (14+/-7 AU closer), 4,200 m/s right now. Could you show your work here?

Now where did you pull that 4 km/s number from? You were saying something about 400 m/s just a moment ago, that's all I see. And I don't think you meant to suggest that 4 km/s=16 km/s, so I can only assume you meant 40*4 km/s = 16 km/s? Which just isn't right. You're definitely going to have to show your work if you want anyone to follow this.

The intersection of Earth's orbital plane (a.k.a. the ecliptic) and any other orbital plane is a line, not a point, so it's rather hard to define a "distance". I suppose you could mean the close point of that line, but if X is supposed to be orbiting the Sun, that line would necessarily pass right through the Sun, not 3 AU away.
And why would Sedna's perhelion distance have any bearing on X's distance? If it's 10 or 13 AU, then we should spot it easily, since that would put it right between Saturn's and Uranus' orbits.

Where are you getting this other 400 m/s number from now?

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All theories which speak about big perturbancies of planets if Planet X exists are based on computations, that X's path is in plane of ecliptic but is not, and that X has got circular orbit, but X is on very eccentric orbit. X is among planets only some years, but in much bigger distance is circa 1500 years!!!
Planet X when passing near to outer planets is in distance from them circa 1 billion, 500 millions km and it, this passing takes only some years.
X is coming to planets and after that goes forward, so shifts in planetary motions are nearly compensated. Perturbances after X passings so are in level 1 degree on sky toward previously calculated positions...
X is close to inner planets only months or days so perturbations are not significant too.
We can't observe shifts of Sun toward X prooperly because we are too close to Sun till now.
Sednas orbital speed arround Sun is more than 3km/s but component,part of its speed in direction toward Sun is circa 400m/s, what is according my presumptions also speed of Sun toward X but with - sign....
X is 1/40 of Sun's mass so speed of X is 40x400m/s=16km/s.
These calculations but are not too precious...
Results of Pioneers 10,11 voyages are such that it is so called ok now only after it how they changed mass of Neptune so that it pass to them for description of Pioneer's motions but but I think it is absolutely wrong...I had it described in previous article here how is it actually...
I need not only precise programs for computed positions of planets but real historical data from last 10, 80, 160, 300 years

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senmut

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senmut

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senmut

Well, I can't argue with that. Certainly clears things up.

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GhiaPet Home Page

I got to 400m/s = 4000 m/s = circular ecliptic point velocity Oriental rug and then my cerebellum exploded.

What a mess. And how am I supposed to maintain autonomic bodily functions now?

8-[

You know, I think resenmut might be using translation software. Some of the sentences are convoluted. Definately looks like a translation program error.

A difference of on degree of arc would have been VERY noticiable, an example: a full moon in the sky is 2 degrees of arc, if something had moved that much it would have been immediately noted.

If Planet X's orbit is away from the ecliptic there would be no "compensation" in the shifts of planetary motions.

Sorry those calculations don't make much sense to me, you will have to explain to me how Sedna's orbital velocity is related to PlanetX's orbital velocity.

In order for Planet X to only spend only days or months near the inner planets it would have to change its velocity by a gigantic factor, please explain how this could be possible considering that it's supposedly a massive object (1/40th of the mass of the sun)

Where is this article, is it on a thread hera at the BABB? or in your web page?

The software must be enough, since the mathematics that describe orbital mechanics have been derived from the observations you have mentioned. How can we now they work? Well since it's used to send probes to other planets and those probes arrive without a problem (unless there is an issue more related to the reliability of the probe than anything else) then they must work. And how do we know that these probes don't have to make major corrections to their trajectory? considering that in the design of these probes the major issue is the weight of the probe, it usually means that these devices can't do MAJOR changes in their trajectory because it would severely impact their usability. For example: most probes sent to the outer planets have use all sorts of tricks in order to attain the necesary acceleration to reach their destination, like the gravity assist maneuver which requires very precise calculations. However if you MUST have the historical tables you will have to look for them at astronomical almanacs in any university library

In any case, the oldest historical data on Pluto is from the year it was discovered (1930)

Now originally you said you needed the data from the last 50 years, why the change? why do you need now from the last 300 years?

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Fraud. Absolute incontrovertible undeniable fraud. That's your entire Planet X/Nemesis case, Pavel. Pure fraud.

You whip out all these numbers showing orbits, periods, sizes, gravitational effects, and more, and with much ill-translated handwaving claim that PX/N is on its way to do in the Solar System.

Then, to end your little diatribe, you claim you need both computational figures and real historical data up to 300 years old, to prove your case.
WHY IN THE UNPRINTABLE DIDN'T YOU GO GET THIS DATA YOURSELF? WHY ARE YOU BEGGING US TO DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU? WHY ARE YOU DRAWING CONCLUSIONS WHEN BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION YOUR WORK ISN'T DONE?

Your work is a fraud. I will refrain from characterizing you personally.

__________________
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Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

I hate to follow up such a colourful post, but I just noticed something that didn't dawn on me before...

X is 1/40 of Sun's mass so speed of X is 40x400m/s=16km/s...

That 40 there isn't unitless. It has units of (M_sun)^-1, meaning the result of that calculation is 16000 m/s(M_sun), and those units boil down to m s^-1 kg^-1, which is meaningless.

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Party Pooper

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After circa 2400 years is from total amoun of long periodic comets only half, ...according last Nasa researches. How many of them (comets) were here before 10000, 26000 years, before milion years? 1000x more how it is now?
Not!!!
What brought here them so many?
It must be regular process with some periodicity.
Why is according top usa scientiests Oort cloud much smaller now? Didn't they copy my results...
Why sudenly there are comets on hyperbolic paths not hyp. but with much smaller period...?
Because there weren't hyperbolic comets.
To meet hyp comet must be for Sun very rare occasion.
So called hyperbolic motions (so it is visible from Earth) of significant part of comets are only results of additions of real eliptic motions of comets with opposite motion of Sun toward X and toward more distant Nemesis.

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senmut

Perhaps they're only interested in valid scientific data. Plus did you ever consider that, so to speak, you might be either below their radar, or if detected, determined to be just so much noise?

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After circa 2600 years only half from total amount of comets left, isn?t destroyed, after next 2300 years it is only quarter ...according last D. Hughes researches. How many of them (comets) were here before 10000, 26000 years, before million years? 1000x more how it is now?
Not!!!
What brought so many of them here?
It must be regular process with some periodicity.
Why is according top USA scientists (J. Anderson) Oort cloud much smaller now? 364 long periodic comets have actually much shorter periods. Didn't they copy my results from ancient astronomical maps, carpets, Pioneers motions, Bode law researches according which is Oort Cloud till less than 1000AU ...
Why suddenly there are comets on hyperbolic paths not hyp. but with much smaller period...?
Because there weren't hyperbolic comets.
To meet hyp comet must be for Sun very rare occasion.
So called hyperbolic motions (so it is visible from Earth) of significant part of comets are only results of additions of real elliptic motions of comets with opposite motion of Sun toward X and toward more distant Nemesis.
Sun makes opposite motions toward X with circa 1 milliard km long path (X is 1/40 of Sun?s mass, period around 1500 years, ).
These shifts of Sun are visible in shifts of focuses (usually some hundred millions km, depends mainly on angle of comet?s path toward X?s path), in deformations of paths of long periodic comets (look for example on results
SOHO, LINEAR programs ).

Very big part of long periodic comets has perihelia in distances some hundred millions km from Sun.

Shifts of focuses of long periodic comets are some hundred millions km.

Our known planets can very slightly influence paths of these long periodic comets (only not significant part), because main part of them (long periodic comets) has orbits in big angle toward ecliptic.

So, what can cause these so called anomalies if not presence of X and of more distant Nemesis???!!!
Where is X and Nemesis?
You can easy find it from deformations, disturbances on paths of comets, outer planets!

RNDr. Smutny Pavel
Slovakia
Ucitelska 11
96900 Banska Stiavnica
tel.:00421456921995
p.smutny@stonline.sk

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senmut

What deformations or disturbences on paths of comets and outer planets?

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Why?

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If not, so Earth living surface had been totaly destroyed by many thousands comets...before some millions years
Earth was but bombarded by comets, asteroids, meteorits in regular waves with some periodicities. This is sure, because it was detected from sediments, ice probes from Greenland, Antarctica...you can see graphs on GISP2 web pages.

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senmut

resenmut:

Would you please answer my questions?

Thank you...

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Regular catastrophes, cataclysmas happened periodicaly with periods circa 28millions, 500 thousands, 100 thousand, 1500 years. Look for example at results, graphs from GISP2 project. Probes, sonds from Ice from Greenland, Antarctis and sediments from whole world speak clearly what happened in geological past of our Earth.
When you compare graphs from last some thousands years (global warming acceleration) with graphs from era before circa 100000 and 500000 years so you can find that mankind is on end of one 100000 year long cycle or even on end of 500000 period!!!
Graphs, probes can't cheat. It is not probable.
Mankind (we-cromagnon people, neandertal people) are here 100000 years. Creators (according Enuma Elish-Summerian sources, their list of kings) of present mankind race (Annunaki, Nefilim) were on Earth since approx. 500000 years.
History, Geology can't be omited when we want find astronomical history, results of periodical arrivals of X!
It is not joke, that mankind is close to big change or exchange on Earth.
We all together had enough time to show for what we are worth....?!

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senmut

Resenmut, you have not answered my questions, unfortunately it's not possible for you to expect to be taken seriously if can't explain the holes in your hypothesis. For that matter, you have not provided Charlie with the position of PX, nor a reasonable explanation on why you can't provide its astronomical position. I have heard prophecies of impeding doom for at least 20 years, NONE of them have ever been fulfilled, why then should yours be any closer to the truth than those I have heard before?

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