Now, now...play nice. That's not the way "it works", as has been pointed out to you a number of times.

WHAT SHIPS??????

Well that's one explantion. But (as has also been pointed out to you), it's not the only explanation. Why can't you see that?

Who says that they do?? Oh, that's right, you do. Your belief does not count as scientific evidence. I thnk I'm starting to repeat myself.

WHAT WEAPONS??????

We here are all painfully aware of what you have previously stated...what I'd like to know is if you're ever going to try and prove it, or will you continue to make statements which are unsupported by evidence. (I'm betting on the latter.)

OK, that's a opinion...show us your proof. (I am repeating myself.)

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

Noticing a pattern here craterchains? (pun intended) :wink:

Summer was short this year?

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

He had to take summer school for Remedial Astronomy.

I know I'm underejumacated compared to most/all of you folks who have been trying but here goes a little more. Ok, Mr. chains, here's why some chains may be crater to crater. As you well know by now, most everybody here thinks fragmented comets/asteroids/rocks/bunnies caused crater chains. One thing you keep bringing up is the crater to crater/edge to edge nature of some chains. When SL 9 tried to ruin Jupiter's day, the stream of fragments was approaching from the right or straight on if I'm not mistaken while Jupiter was rotating right so the impacts were spaced out.
Now let's say another 'roid (har) was broken up and impacted from the same direction the heavenly body (not mine) was rotating. The surface would be moving in the same direction as the fragments thus the impacts would be closer together when the rocks hit and make the craters closer together or even edge to edge. What do you think, sirs?
Maybe somebody's already tried this angle and it's been so long I have forgotten but at least I burned a few calories in my fingers.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

If they were weapons then we could go and dig out the bullets? Or did they pass right through and out the other side?

Hey, he's right!! That is why all the planets that you see these crater chains on are dead:

It because they have all been shot!

There proved it at last, now can we all go home?

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"The most compelling evidence supporting the existence of other forms of intelligent life is the single fact that they haven't come to visit us" - Douglas Adams

I'll add my voice to the chorus one more time, then I'm out of here unless you present any actual data.

Craterchains, you're the one claiming that the mainstream explanation doesn't work for these features. You're the one claiming to have done a three-year study of the phenomenon. Therefore, you're the one who has the responsibility of presenting data to support your claim. I, and the many others you've asked, are not going to do the work for you unless there's a compelling reason to do so. This would be either (1) a strong, well argued case (after nine pages, still not forthcoming) or (2) a big bag of money (if you want to hire a statistical consultant, we might be able to work something out). The ball is in your court.

Yeah, I've finally reached the conclusion that any further discussion of this subject is "pointless"...unless craterchains presents "some kind" of evidence...and I just don't see that happening. (He hasn't in the last 9 pages.)

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

So, as I get it, several of you are saying that you agree with the now given theory about how broken space rocks made all these types of CS crater chains? Ok.

Are these the same scientists that prior to the SL9 event thought that all these closely spaced and aligned crater chains were caused by volcanoes? Actually there have been a couple other suggestions about how they may have formed over the past few decades that have been speculated upon. Then along came SL9 and its break up and eventual splatter all over Jupi’s Southern Hemisphere. Not a real good indicator of what could make CS types of crater chains, but that is my honest opinion. If the scientists want to wave their hands about that as the cause, fine, but not very logical, reasonable, or probable. [-X

Given that we have a very large volume of scientific data on automated computer fire control weapons systems that can reproduce these same kinds of patterns, why isn’t that acceptable data? In some places Mars is literally torn up from what would be called strafing runs in several areas. Hundreds of crater chains that are hundreds of strikes long. 8-[

And I am to believe that space rocks did this? :^o FOCLMMFAO

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It's not what you know or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you. Will Rogers
http://www.craterchains.com/ns/nspage.html

The only hand-waving I've seen is from you craterchains.Just because weapons can make craters doesn't mean your craters are made by weapons. You come up with an extremely far-fetched idea and then make all these allowances to try to sell it. You presuppose (without proof) that: there's an ET civilization, this ET civilization entered our solar system, this ET civilization played "shootout at the O.K. Corral" in our solar system, this ET civilization (obviously advanced if they were to get here from there) employed primitive projectile weapons that conveniently mirror contemporary Earth weapons, thus allowing you to cite "scientific data on automated fire control weapons systems" in your attempt to sell this hokum. The irony of bashing science in other threads and trying to use "scientific data" in this one escapes you. I wouldn't count on too many people buying this hokum of yours craterchains .. not here anyway.

Looking up "Mean Error of Impact' might help you research your theory.

For example, your average B-17 or B-52 unguided ordnance package leaves the aircraft and follows a ballistic (unguided) trajectory to its point of impact. The actual point of impact can only be predicted to within a circle that is in the order of 100s of meters due to factors such as wind speed, aerodynamic properties of the weapon, navigational uncertainty, etc...

So I want to hit a point target that is 10m across, say a building. I plan a strike mission that needs to lay down 10 bombs (using a 100 MEI) to hit that target. And because I want my pilot to hit the target on the first run, I make sure he flies straight-and-level on his approach. Find the initial point, line up with the target, and "bombs away" over the mean point (where you want a bomb to hit.)

In the case of the BUFF or Liberator, the bombs are stacked in a rack above the bomb bay doors, and are released one-at-a-time for each stack. By that time your wingman is making his bomb run as well. When the dust settles you have a series of smoking' holes that are in a line which represents the bomber's line of attack. They call this carpet-bombing and it's a bit messy for the orphanage across the road and wastes 90% of your bomb load. That's why dumb bombs are only used for area targets like troop concentrations.

Strafing attacks are kinda similar, but they use more high speed ordnance (like a machine gun or cannons) where the pilot starts firing rounds forward of the target and uses the airframe to guide the impact points. Still very wasteful.

So your theory is that an unobserved alien race used practically every solar system body as a battleground using unguided weapons with a random destructive yield. I guess to your theory's favor, the unguided nature explains why the craters are freaking everywhere. :P

In all sincerity though, I think you have quite an imaginative theory and not a conspiracy in sight!

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

In my opinion, there has not been a single piece of compelling evidence brought up by craterchains to even start me considering that the chains are anything but natural. Not one.

And to jump from natural causes to an alien war is grossly abusive of any sort of reasonable chain of logic.

Just to add to the overwhelming evidence against your claims, here is Yet Another Reason it is clearly not from an alien war:

Imagine you are in a battle situation in space. Someone is firing at you. They fire the projectiles in a linear chain. What do you do? Simple: move up a few meters, and watch all the projectiles (or energy pulses or what-have-you) go underneath you.

Firing linearly would be dumb. The way to maximize your chances of hitting an enemy target capable of dodging would be to fire a grid of projectiles, not a line. In fact, you should vary the timing as well, so that they have to dodge in three dimensions and not just two.

So if craters were the result of alien wars, we would see either a grid pattern on moons, or a random pattern due to the motion of the firing vehicle coupled with a 3D pattern of firing. I'll note that a random pattern formed this way would be indistinguishable from natural origins. Either way, you cannot draw the conclusion you have.

craterchains, I find your reasoning specious in the extreme, with no evidence to back it up. Saying something over and over again does not make it any more true. You have also inverted the scientific process, asking others to prove or disprove your assertions, and we don't do things that way here. While you have participated in this discussion, and in a spirited way, your method of avoiding very large holes in your theory smacks a bit of trolling, as we have seen here over and over again.

I strongly urge you to reconsider your evidence, your conclusions, and your posting methods.

__________________
Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com

Aw man...I am such a dope! BA, your answer makes perfect sense...and I never would have thought of it!! Darn "2 dimensional" thinking!

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

In science, the simplest solution is generally the right one. craterchains, I guess you never heard that before. :roll:

A single 500 MT weapon would take out a 75-mile rock. You wouldn't need anything nearly that big to take out a spaceship, which in theory need to be lightweight (flimsy) to save on fuel.

Unless, of course, you have warp drive...

A 250 KT weapon would do quite well, if you targeted the right spot, like it's engines.

Or you could use a BB, provided you targeted its only pilot and accelerated the BB to 5,000 fps.

There's absolute no need to waste 7,499.999999999999 MT of energy like that!!!

Yes Archer17 there is an obvious pattern. #-o
Your response was what we had predicted by that pattern BA. [-X
Thanks.
:wink:

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It's not what you know or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you. Will Rogers
http://www.craterchains.com/ns/nspage.html

You see a pattern in the BA's responses?

Do they look...alien?

If I had to vote which was the most likely cause for the billion year old crater chains on the moon, either this:

Shoemaker Levy Effect

Or this:

B24 Effect

I’d vote for the first one.

How about you?

Given craterchains track record for not providing straight or coherent answers to simple and reasonable queries………

The ‘unmistakable pattern’ craterchains is referring to may be found on one of his web pages.



“While investigating forums where these ideas would be discussed we found an inordinate amount of
direct attacks on any such discussion about the possibility of Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Actually we
found several topics that get the same treatment. The tactics used are to discredit the evidence by
any means possible and to even boldly lie about known scientific facts. When that doesn't work the one
who posted the controversial topic is attacked unmercifully. Many other tactics are used to cause the
person posting to become discouraged and leave the forums. What ever works, just get the topic and
information off the board and out of the publics view.”

From his website: http://www.craterchains.com/



Norval. Gale. This is far worse than pot-kettle-black because you are attempting to imply that any disagreement or request for clarification somehow qualifies as an effort to silence or discourage or chase you away. That is false and unfair.

No one has engaged in any of those tactics. You were merely asked to provide evidence.

So, your use of the ‘waggy-finger-frowny-face’ is inappropriate.

Having read through most of this thread [sorry if I missed anything], the question Tofu asked still keeps coming up:

Why would intelligent aliens create a string of craters that look like they were produced naturally? What would be the point of that?

IMO - without any attempt at a straight answer to Tofu's question - we have nothing to go on!

It all sounds rather reminiscent of "Reverse Theory" to me: claims without evidence?? #-o

I thought they said, it was a bombing run
There you go

Actually, my response was, if I may say, reasonable and directly speaks to your main points. I did not attack you, except on points of how you tend to post here -- which is not only my right but my duty as admin here, especially after previous discussions.

I did nothing to "discredit the evidence by any means possible". I used logic and reason. Nor did I "boldly lie about known scientific facts". I agree with Heathen that these are the patterns to which you refer. That's pretty insulting.

Your response did not speak to any of the points I made, despite my points being very clear and laid-out in such a way that they enabled further discussion.

Now pay attention here: in my post, I specifically urged you to think over your posting method. You did not do that, clearly. This is indicative of your overall thought process: you leap to conclusions using evidence that simply isn't there.

And since you chose to post the way you did after I specifically warned you not to, you have made yet another leap-- to that of a troll.

This has gone on long enough.

Banned. I am also locking this thread. craterchains, like so many pseudoscientists before him, will never be convinced his premise is wrong, nor can he even be convinced to think about it in a reasonable way. No more can be gained from this.

__________________
Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com