June 28, 2004
Milky Way X-ray Mystery Deepens

I think 'Fair Use' allows me to extract some quotes from this article (in full at the link above):

Thanks to Amy Acheson who mentions that this is:

Regards,
Ian Tresman
Proponent, The Electric Universe

Another interesting development!

It seems Mr Wong was right, despite some claiming that the EU is a laughable parody of a theory! Unfortunately this was Mr Wong's last post before he was banned.

a) According to you, this is evidence for the EU.
b) I can think of at least one possible source - a very large one with the mass of over a hundred million suns
c) Judging from that quote, the plasma at the galactic core doesn't behave much like the stuff in the lab.
d) Just because it's at the galactic core doesn't mean it's everywhere. The core is a pretty strange place, you know...

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

I know you are not implying that LM was banned because he was a EU proponent, but I just want to make it clear in case someone else tries to read that into your post: Lm Wong was banned for violating the rules regarding sockpuppets. He was not banned because his views differ from the administrator's.

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Well, I think he was smart enough, even if he was a bit naughty.

Any guesses as to his next puppet? How about P. Lasma?

or Am Salp... Ma Plas...

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Well, I guess I'm going to bow out of this discussion early. It doesn't show anything related to EU, and it's just a minor question for the mainstream. Before Chandra, we only knew about 20 or so X-Ray sources from the galactic core, now we've discovered over 2,000. Plenty more can be lurking about waiting to be found.

As to the two plasma cloud sources. Some sort of energy source is required to keep the plasma "hot" and some thing is required to keep the plasma from blowing itself away as well.

Electromagnetic fields will not satisfy the latter, and you would need external EM fields to satisfy the former. This implies a massive object like a black hole or neutron star. Both of these objects would pull in the plasma, accelerating it. This would increase the energy, and begin to give off radiation. Most of this radiation would then push the plasma back out, heating it up in the process. X-rays, and possibly radio waves would pass though the cloud and be detectable by us. But thats just one theory I came up with real quickly off the top of my head.

Hopefully, when the Astro-E2 is launched (scheduled for Feb, 05), it will help solve questions like this.

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People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

Soup, you don't seem to get the idea that the EU massively violates the known laws of physics. If something is completely impossible, it's completely impossible. The EU, unfortunately, is completely impossible. Arguing with you is like arguing with a religious fanatic - no matter what facts are thrust before you, you still expound the phony virtues of your pet "theory".

By the way, notice that someone who called themselves "Soupdragon" (as opposed to "Soupdragon2") posted here a while ago, saying things rather similar to what you say? Did you know that their username is still active? Do you happen to be that person? If so, why don't you drop the unnecessary sock puppet?

I daresay this is the last time I will post anything in response to you. Now I think I'll go and argue with Jerry Jenson, who, despite being a static universe proponent, actually seems to be reasonably sane.

BTW, Musashi, who was Lm Wong's previous sock puppet?

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

Aldrin
Lm Wong
d 2022
mk ultra
orion 38
mr arriba
arriba superstar

All the same. Also, Soup has said a few times that he is the same person but forgot his password. There is nothing wrong with that as long as he doesn't go back to posting from his other account, and even then, it would be, I hope, obvious that he is the same person, which defeats the purpose of puppets.

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Oww. I thought that that irritating bloke got IP banned. Apparently not.

__________________
If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

The energy source is simply that stars and galaxies behave as a "homopolar motor" (or Faraday Disk). You can find out more about them on them Electric Cosmos Web site.

If you'd like a "proper" citation from the ADS database, try:

"The Hubble expansion as ascribed to mutual magnetic induction between neighboring galaxies" by Bostick, W. H. in Laser and Particle Beams (ISSN 0263-0346), vol. 6, Aug. 1988, p. 405-408. Abstract here.

Regards,
Ian Tresman

Indeed, the evidence is consistent with more than one theory, neither of which are mutally exclusive.

Absolutely right, and no inference is inferred.

Regards,
Ian Tresman

Ian, this is even less possible than electricaly-shaped galaxies. Do you have any idea at all of the distances involved? Magnetic effects at such distances would require easily detectable magnetic fields, far, far greater than what we observe. Just because something works on a computer doesn't mean it's true.

And by the way, double-posting is really not necessary...

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

'soupdragon' isn't really a sockpuppet for soupdragon2. Like myself and my old username 'Iain Lambert', soupdragon has changed email address and lost access to the old account. The user 'soupdragon' had their last post before 'soupdragon2' made their first, so no harm, no foul.

edit - oops. Didn't notice that Musashi just covered this. Sorry.

Oh, dear. And you question my sanity! (Last red highlight.) BTW, I didn't start this thread.

And here, you said this:

At any rate, I don't think Jerry Jensen has ruled out the Plasma model, although you would need to check this with him.

Last paragraph of this post

Maybe he needs to know a bit more about the plasma model. Maybe you could tell him, Soup.

But I'll have nothing to do with the EU.

__________________
If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

Well, at least you seem to have calmed down a little.

First, Soupdragon explained when he came back that he forgot his old password and had to register with a new username. Conveniently he chose his old username with a "2" added on so it was pretty clear who he was.

Second, a sock puppet is used by the guilty poster as a supposedly different individual who's purpose is to make it seem there is more support for an idea than there actually is. Have you seen Soupdragon2 using his alter ego this way?

Third, I'm quite sure that if soupdragon felt the need for a sockpuppet, he is intelligent enough to know that Soupdragon2 is a rather transparent choice. One would think he'd at least try for something less obvious - such as "Stewlizard 1/2"!

While you're at it, I've answered your questions about Arp.

a) 2 other people already mentioned the "sock puppet" thing. Apologies for jumping to conclusions.

b) Thanks for answering my questions. :wink:

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

Hi!
What is the mechanism explaining the formation of a Super - Massive Black Hole with the mass of over a hundred million suns from the protogalactic gas cloud?

A supermassibe Black Hole can form in any hot plasma where the ambient light converges on a particular center such to cancel all lambda. This cancellation released ZPF energy, which is a very powerful gravitic force, and thus sets in motion the beginnings of a galaxy formation. As stars ignite from this very high energy center and spin off, their ambient light continues to converge on the black hole center, from the spinning perimeters, so that it grows in size and intensity. X-ray is the byproduct of this powerful interaction. Eventually, the whole galaxy with its new stars, and remaining proto-matter, assembles into what is commonly seen as a spiral galaxy, like our Milky Way. This theory, speculative to be sure, is what is forecast by how electromagnetic energy and gravity are inversely proportional, so where the em energy cancels, total gravity takes over again.

I will not belabor this theory here, for brevity's sake, but if anyone is curious how the math works out, SI base units, and how this interaction forms black holes, please see it at: http://www.humancafe.com/cgi-bin/dis...gi?70/108.html
(Copyright "Fair use" allows copying of these linked pages, provided they are for educational purposes, or research only, and not for commercial use.)

Please DO NOT use any of this in your school assignments, or my a** will be grass. But have fun with it.

Ivan

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Caveat Lector. Experimentum summus judex...

Eh, I'm not sure that's quite right, Lunatik.

Last I heard, a supermassive black hole would form from the merger of smaller black holes generated by supernovae at the core (which contains a lot of old stars), and the sucking in of stars and gas that would follow. A large black hole, over a long period of time, could wolf down a lot of stars...

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?

Am I missing something? Why don't these super-duper Black Holes gobble-up the whole proto-galactic cloud?

Do they lose their apetite at some point, and why?

Because outside of the event horizion, their gravity is no different than anything else's gravity. If the sun were to suddenly collapse into a black hole, it would have an event horizion of 3 miles (I believe). Earth's orbit would remain unaffected because the total gravity is the same.

So the black hole eats everything nearby and eventually the remaining matter is either oribting fast enough to not fall in, or is too far away to be adversely affected.

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People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

So out of interest, what kind of matter might be "sucked into" a black hole which would not be sucked by a pre-black hole mass (ie big sun?) with same gravitational pull?

Regards,
Ian Tresman

Again, the gravitational influence on objects outside of the event horizion would be no different than that of a larger object of the same mass.

The difference is that were non-black holes emit large amouts of radiation. This radiation helps keep objects away from the star. So when a star is born inside a nebula it's going to start pushing the nebula away from it. Whereas the larger a black hole gets, the less radiation it emits. Also, a majority of what the accretion disk releases is typically funneled into jets that shoot out perpendicularly to the disk.

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People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

But wouldn't that be at odds with the standard explanation for quasar luminosities - supermassive black holes.

Any idea of the amount of radiation emitted by a sun, compared to the radiation emitted by a black hole at its event horizon?

Regards,
Ian Tresman

A 30 solar mass black hole would have a "temperature" of 2 * 10^-9 Kelvin and would emit 10^-31 watts via Hawking radiation. Hawking temperature is inversely proportional to the mass of the black hole and the Hawking luminosity is inversely proportional to the square of the mass. So a supermassive black hole would be vastly cooler and less luminous.

Compare that to our Sun which gives off 40,000 watts per square inch which works out to 2.43600 × 10^23 watts.

Once black hole eats everything around it, it becomes quite true to it's name.

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People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

You see, a gravitational field's strength decreases with distance from its source (the inverse-square law). Also, in order to get eaten, something has to get beyond the event horizon, as Wedgebert pointed out.

The black hole eventually will eat our galaxy, if it's given enough time. But it would take a while.

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If ignorance is bliss, why is the world so full of misery?