This paragraph makes absolutely no sense...

Then why do you argue its validity?

If I get out my crystal ball, can I talk you out of some cash? I'm real good at it.

I'm not being sarcastic, I trying to point out your own contradictions. It isn't a science but it is based on observations. You can't have both. Either it is some magical powers astrologers possess or they have developed it over time by observation.

And since I think we agree, they didn't use careful scientific observation, but you believe your horoscope was accurate, then why do you think it was more than a coincidence?

If you wear your hat backwards and the Red Sox win is the curse lifted because of it?

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~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

Would you accept testimony from an anarchist, or a romanticist, or a novelist, or a lobbyist? "astrologist" is in the dictionary, but it has a "g" in front of it.

That comment really made my stomach turn.

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

Ancient peoples needed to establish the proper times for planting and harvesting crops and for religious celebrations. The vast majority of mundane predictions about illnesses, accidents, divorces, shipwrecks, earthquakes, scandals, inheritances, marriages, and the like, were utterly useless except to create an addiction to the astrologer whose pronouncements appeared to offer some promise of control over the events in question.

Regarding modern astrology, following quote, from Glenn Perry:


I would think this a reasonable assumption. They were incomplete.
Not to my knowledge. Someone thought Nostradamus had predicted the existence of Neptune, but this is incorrect.[/quote]

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I will try once more. Aspects are strong if they are exact, i.e. 90 degrees exactly for a square. The larger the orb (discrepancy), the weaker the aspect becomes (for example 95 degrees). If you have an exact aspect denoting, say aggression, and a number of aspects which would counter this tendency but have are very weak, then the aspect dentoting aggression will show itself strongly in the character of the person.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I argue the point because I have made a large number of horoscopes, most of which I consider to be accurate. I am basing the interpretation of the natal chart on reference books written by Jungian psychologists.

I will say again: Study the methodolgy, try it out, and come to your own conclusion.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Was this an attempt at humor?

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

That's why I said linguists feel free. Oh well, I'll have to add it to my spell checker I guess.

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~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

Oh, now I get it. In other words astrologist wasn't in the dictionary. I must not have had enough sleep last night. :P

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~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

And I say, test your ideas with valid scientific observation to rule out coincidence and selective interpretation effect and draw valid conclusions.

You continue to assert I would believe if only I tried, or learned more, or looked at the right kind of astrology, or was more open or whatever. Well, your assumptions I have ignored astrology because I don't buy it are wrong. I ignore astrology because I have looked carefully at it, not the other way around.

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~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

g + astrologist = stomach doctor

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

In respect to the first question, I have really ruled out coincidence (just too much to be coincidence) and I have never done selective interpretation. Why would I want to fool myself?

May I ask what you have looked at carefully, and how much time you spent on looking at it.

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______________________________________________
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I still don't get it... What should that imply?

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

There is no implication, really. It went something like this:

Which was (as I took it) a little play on words meaning that the only reference to "astrologist" they could could in the dictionary was contained in the word "gastrologist."

I acknowledged receipt of said joke by the comment:

Which usually means something sickening or offensive, but in this context was just a play off milli360's original comment. Off-topic a bit, but I think it generally fits in with the style on this board (correct me if I'm wrong.)

Seriously though, it really wasn't a jab at you...just poking a little fun at milli360s joke.

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

Sounds like you are finally getting to the truth. Which one are you, milli360? 8-[

Candy,
The darn thing is that my mind would rather be in this thread debating against my own position. I know that some people have a dependency problem on an astrologer, because they may like the fact of shifting responsibility for problems to some else. I do not belong to this class of people.

This is an area which I really regard as a mystery. I stopped trying to come up with mechanisms to explain how it could possibly work long ago. Why? Because, after really digging it the works of Rober Hand, Liz Greene and others, I really am surprised at the interpretations I have come up with in respect to family members and friends and find it a valuable tool in achieving better inter-personal relations.

A few examples: My mom is the classical latin mama. Horoscope with its strong emphasis on Cancer elements, clearly shows this. My grandfather was a real eccentric and dreamer, and the natal chart shows this clearly (Uranus in the first house, emphasis on Pisces, etc). My ex-boss at work lives only for work and is extremely ambitious (cluster of six planets in 10th house -career) and is very possession/money minded (pluto in 2nd house). A good friend of mine is also obssessively career-minded (pluto in 10th house) always self-critcal and doubtful as to what he has achieved (saturn in 10th house), jovial person (sun conjunct jupiter in 1st house), always squabbles with women (venus square moon), etc. etc. I could go on. I have noticed that the salient characteristic comes out clearly.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

In Jungian, etc. natal astrology, what is the length of time for a generation?

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

I said a generation but actually if you look back I posted how long Uranus, Neptune and Pluto stay in a given sign (ranges from 12 to about 34 years...). So in some cases it might be more than one generation. Example (source: Palden Jenkins):

Pluto (change) entered Gemini in 1882:
- causes barrage of new ideas (creation vs evoluton, electrical technologies, aeroplane)
Pluto entered Cancer in 1912:
depressions, slumps, insecurity and fear
Pluto entered Leo in 1938:
war, LSD, nuclear explosions
Pluto entered Virgo in 1956:
widespread computer use, nuclear power
Pluto entered Libra in 1971:
marriage institution shook up, enjoy life now and face music later
Pluto entered Scorpio in 1984:
sexual revolution, death of the old

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Not really. Yes, there was a lot of innovation taking place between 1882 and 1912, but far MORE took place afterwards. Yes, while Pluto was in Gemini you had the automobile, the airplane, evolution, the beginning of quantum mechanics, special relativity, and the harnessing of electric power. On the other hand, the industrial revolution, classical mechanics, electrodynamics, chemistry, thermodynamics, the locomotive, and the steam engine had all been invented prior to 1882. Since 1912 we've had electronics, general relativity, space flight, the computer, more development of quantum mechanics, cosmology, the assembly line, nuclear physics, etc.

Moreover, you're running into a huge historical problem here. As you've said, natal astrology only looks at the configuration of the Solar System at a planet's birth. With the examples you gave, Darwin, Edison, and the Wright brothers were all born before 1882. In fact, Darwin died in 1882.

Okay, you had World War I from 1914 to 1918 and Black Tuesday on 1929. On the other hand, the years before WWI and the decade between the two was marked by a tremendous enthusiasm and confidence in the modern age. Similarly, prior to 1914 there was no sense at all that WWI would turn into a bloody, four year mess - it was generally assumed that it would be a quick, glorious war thanks to the strong sense of nationalism (and by extension, security) that pervaded European and American society. As such, we only have 'depressions and slumps' for nine out of 26 years and 'insecurity and fear' for 13 of 26 years.

And, again, the people who would have been participating in most of these activities would have been born prior to 1912.

The rise of recreational drugs was in the mid 1960's, four years after Pluto entered Virgo. As such, if you assume that the average hippie was around 18, we're talking birthdates around 1948. What about peole born between 1938 and 1948? Similarly, if Pluto in Leo indicates war, why did we have World War I in the 1910's, and so many wars AFTER 1956 (Vietnam, the Falklands, both Gulf Wars, the various Arab-Israeli wars, the US and Soviet invasions of Afghanistan, civil wars in Lebanon and the Sudan, the Cechen rebellion, civil war in the Republic of Congo....)?

The first experimental nuclear power plant was operational in 1951. The Nautilus was launched in 1953. Both were before Pluto entered Virgo. Similarly, the first American civilian nuclear plants went online between 1957 and 1959. The people involved were all born before 1956.

How was the hedonism of the 70's different than the hedonism of the 60's or 20's?

All of these were in force throughout the twentieth century, starting with the collapse of Victorian-era social repression in the 1920's. The art deco movement, cubism, and surrealism - all of which predate 1984 - were all conscious breaks with the past. Even the explosion of science fiction in the 20's represents a fascination with the changes brought by science and technology and a clear willingness to break with the past. In other words, 'death of the old' was old news before the 80's, and certainly before people born between 1984 and 2010 will be old enough to start influencing the world.

As well:
Evolution, or "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection" by Charles Darwin, was published in 1859, and conceptualized in the years before that aboard the Beagle (1831-1836). And, as pointed out, Darwin was born many years before this.

WWI was triggered by an assassination at the tail end of the Anarchist assassination movement - oddly enough starting sometime around 1880's and peaking around 1900...

WWII had its start in 1933, and earlier in post WWI retribution, depression, inflation, and anger. The "Roaring 20's" were in part due to reparations paid to the US and other economies for the war...

I'm concerned about the correlaries drawn from an incomplete and error prone summarization of history, and whether this is the best presentation for evidence.

Quick correction: The US waved all rights to reparations, though it still benefited indirectly for a few years as European nations partially repaid war debts using their reparations income.

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Do try not to take me too seriously.

Thanks for the alternate "history" lesson.

However my question remains unanswered. To repeat and add detail, in Jungian, etc. natal astrology, what is the length of time for a generation? Most definitions of the length of time of a generation vary between 22 and 33 years. What's the value in Jungian, etc. natal astrology?

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

Maksutov,
Sorry I can not answer that question at the moment. I do not ever remember having seen any figure quoted in that respect. Will have to look if I find something somewhere, and if I do will post the answer.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Quick correction to the correction: the US eventually waived rights to reparations... more importantly for the US (and global) economy, the US took even longer to waive repayment of friendly war debt (England and France), and only under strong pressure from its European allies, who resented having to pay back their loans. (Exactly what did they think "loans" were, anyway?) In the meantime, the US economy benefitted enormously... while the European ones were sent into recession, which they tried to defray by collecting their own reparations from the hostile powers, primarily Germany. (What all this had to do with the stars, though, is another question....)

Okay, gzhpcu, I'll take the challenge: Columbus, Ohio; 8 Oct 1966, c.
1:30 AM (sorry I can't get it down better than that; "between 1 and 1:30" is what my mum remembers).

What can you make of that?

Ravanna,
Let's not consider it a challenge, since this thread is basically dead. Seeing as you are curious, we will take if offline. I'll do your natal horoscope and PM you the results. You can PM back what you think of it. Should you decide to make any comment on this thread, that will be up to you.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

[quote="gzhpcu"]Ravana,
Let's not consider it a challenge, since this thread is basically dead. Seeing as you are curious, we will take if offline. I'll do your natal horoscope and PM you the results. You can PM back what you think of it. Should you decide to make any comment on this thread, that will be up to you.

edited for typo

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______________________________________________
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Thanks for the PM, gzhpcu. See my reply.