Astrology thread, continuing from the Hoagland thread.

R.A.F.,
Sure I answered your question. You asked what natal astrology is supposed to do. I told you: it gives you a character analysis as opposed to predicting events. If you have to ask me, then you did not "look into it"...

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Natal astrology is a new term to me. What are the physical forces that affect an individual’s character? Does this type of astrology make any predictions? Can you give us an example of how the astrology is used?

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Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip around the Sun.

If it doesn't predict anything, then what is it useful for?? Yet, you make it sound like it will tell you something about one's character...which is predictive...anyone else see a problem here??

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

I consider it descriptive not predictive. It does not predict events. It will, for example, show if a person is hot-tempered, superficial, calm, career-oriented, etc. It will show how a person will react to external events. If you consider that predictive, then OK...

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

BTW: I am not evangelizing about natal astrology. I just wanted to say on the other thread, that obviously nobody has taken time to look into it. Most people equate it to tabloid astrology.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I haven't read the rest of this yet but I'd like to point out that correlations with birth month do not equal correlations with Sun, Moon, planets and stars as the term 'astrology' implies.

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~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

What else would I consider it??? It describes what a person will be like before we know what they will be like. It's predictive, plain and simple. And as such, it's just as bad as "newspaper astrology". IT DOESN'T WORK!!

...and on that note...I'm outta here.

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

Your reaction does not surprise me R.A.F.
Easy way out. Too bad for you...

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Im with R.A.F. it has never worked for me and it never will. i dont believe my life is written in how the stars rotate or the planets spin, im irrational and i have a friend who was schitzo with 4 personalitys now have a good time predicting her cause i couldnt and no one else can. We are human and irrational we can't be told what we are by some mythical star sign stuff.

gzhpcu: I did some googling on "natal astrology" and still see a reliance on planets etc to determine a person's character. I also visited that Jung link you posted in the Hoagland thread along with some connecting ones. I'm somewhat familiar with some of Jung's views, from his belief in "synchronicity" (he basically doesn't believe in coincidence) to his advocating a "collective unconscious" which I'll leave to another board. As far as his views on astrology he comes across as vague and wishy-washy. He mentions time as the significant factor here:Sorta contradicts himself here (bolding mine):and here:Then, the kicker here (bolding mine):He also wrote this:Proton radiation? Even if I wanted to embrace Jung's version of astrology I'd have problems figuring out what to believe.

Natal astrology, whether using Jung's ideas regarding the significance of a particular time or the more well-known concept of planetary position at birth still has the fatal flaw of proposing undetectable external influences as a mechanism to produce and predict life-long traits at the moment of birth.

I’m still here and am interested, though you’ve not really addressed my questions. But if one can't tell anything about the future, that is no predictions, then what use is natal astrology? If it can only show what a person temperament is, the why is it any better than a personality test?

To reiterate my other questions. According to natal astrology what affects a persons character? What are the forces involved and how do they work? Can you give an example of the functioning and use of natal astrology?

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Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip around the Sun.

Ok, let's do this right. I will supply you with any information you need OTHER than my current address and name. Birth place, date and time. Then you find out someone who can give ACCURATE and SPECIFIC information about me based on that.

Post the information right here in public and we see how accurate it all is.

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"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter neccessitatem."
William of Occam

Well in addition to giving an accurate reading... it would be nice to have a mechanism by which this works.

I'm more interested in seeing if they can get this crate to fly first. If that happens at all....

(Skeptical? Not in the least. Down right outrage at the lack of rational thought at the very concept of planets and stars too far away to influence anything other than a bit of poetry deciding anything about something as complex as a person's mind and personality.!)

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"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter neccessitatem."
William of Occam

That's my point... if the planets are suppose to influence us, just how the heck are they suppose to do it...

We know it can't be gravitation, the gravitational influence of the doctor is greater than that of the gravitational influence of any of the planets!! So just what mechanism is there for this influence. I don't care what they come up with for one or two individuals, I want a mechanism that will allow generalization.

I am certain that you can find someone born under the sign of Taurus that has some of the characteristics associated with that sign; but that proves nothing to me... There are millions of people in the world that were born under that sign, heck... I figure that you could find 10 people if you looked hard enough. I want to know why we should blame the planets instead of the drinking water or maybe even the base genetic material!!

maybe to many italics and '!'s... :-k

Believing in astrology is basically saying that people can all be lumped into 12 basic types of personality... all of which is based on an acient way of using the stars to not get lost in the desert!

That would be fine IF there were only 12 people in the world.. or only one type of astrology. What's more or less valid about western astrology or Chinese type? Or reading tea leaves? Or tossing dice?

If any "astrologer" can give me ANY information about myself based just on when and where I was born and make it SPECIFIC (no generalizations here) I will pay their air fare to go see Randy and collect the 1 million dollars.

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"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter neccessitatem."
William of Occam

I sympathize with the reactions I am getting, because I can follow quite well all the reasoning on why natal astrology should not work. In fact, thiese were exactly my arguments against it, until I was challenged by a colleague at work to "try it out" myself, to see it works. I took the time to read two books he recommended (written by psychiatrists) and my feeling was there really seems to be something to it. I did my own horoscope and recognized myself. (the method consists of placing the planets in the zodiac wheel at the time of birth, looking at which signs each one is in - every planet has a different meaning -, looking to see if certain angles are formed, and based on the hour of birth determining a subdivision of the wheel into mundane houses). Know it sounds like a lot of hocus pocus...
I do not consider myself an "astrologer", but if you guys can agree on one person giving me his or her data: date of birth, exact time of birth, and where, I will do a short character analysis and await feedback. I find the test interesting, since it is of a person which I have never meet or seen, and can not therefore be subconsciously influenced.
Fair enough? (I am not a new age looney by the way... )

edited for misspelling

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______________________________________________
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

P.S. Just so we really understand each: I fully agree that logically it should not work. Just that by pragmatically trying out the method, I feel there is enough to it, that it seems to have some merit....

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Ground rules for the test:
- someone gives me the data I asked for
- I do a short analysis
- It is agreed I should post it in this thread
- the person gives honest feedback

end of test. Interests me too BTW...

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

8:30 am, May 28th 1982, California

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Wormhunter,

I need to know which city in California.

Also, I would like to wait a number of hours until everybody who has been participating on this thread agrees to the candidate.

Otherwise, should the result be positive, someone might say it was rigged

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

Haward California,

As far as your concerns of people claiming it was rigged im not sure why that would be an issue, but feel free to wait as long as you want i will be here.

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Rigged, in the sense that we actually know each other, so the test is worthless...

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I know quite a few of the regulars on this board through the irc room and the pal talk room and would think that anyone of them would know i would try to pull a stunt quite like this, it has no benefit for me, but as i said we can wait, makes no difference to me.

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Right. Nothing personal. Just that I personally do not know how well known you are to others on this board. As soon as I get some confirmation from others, I'll proceed.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

You could go ahead with producing the data then if people question its credibility you could do another set. just an idea but you should probably do four or five sets anyways

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

I am not really out to prove anything to others. I am just curious myself. Since it does entail several hours work to do it well, I really do not feel like doing so many sets.

As we agreed, we will just wait till I get confirmation from other posters.

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.

I know worm from paltalk, although he may not remember who I am since I don't go by the same nick.

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Obedience brings victory
Victory is life
That is the order of things

OK then. Just one problem. Can not find Harward in California. I need longtitude and latitude. Tried googling but little success. Is it close to anything larger?

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“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”
Chinese proverb
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence - and then success is sure." - Mark Twain.