Okay, the human brain has many safe guards for information to be "safe guarded" (locked away) from the active brain. One of these (which im concentraiting on) is memory and it is an actual fact that we never forget anything we are ever told, hear, see, smell, eat... but infact our brains "forces" us to forget so it can function properly.
When one of these "safe guards" breaks down it leads to mental health problems (the field im going into) and one prime example is schizophrenia where a break down in the nervous system which isn't neurone miss fire but actualy a mental disorder in which the psyche of a person breaks up.
The actual explination of DeJa Vu Is not known yet but many pass it off as neurone missfire but the amount of times i have had it (even at an extreamly young age) is exceptionaly high and in some cases i have had several in the same day but then not had them for a few days. Which surgests its not an actual missfire in the neurones of the brain as it would bring up a regular brain pattern or a memory.
What i think is that DeJa Vu is a break down in another of our brain functions in which the feeling of familiarity appears (the been here done that feeling). The reason we can't tell what the future really is, is that billions of state changes occour in our brain every second (read quote below) and our brain is sensitive to every quantem event which means we should be able to predict the future. But for our brains to work if it actualy processed every state change we would never get anywhere as we would be litrally brain dead from the amount of work it would be doing. So our brain obviously has a "safe guard" against all of the information that it is flooded with from quantem states in the mind, a small break down in this could lead to a familiar feeling which is given by Deja Vu

My question is that if brains are aware of all the possible futures (which comes with all the quantem states) would this prove the posibility of Precog dreams?

It just seems that all Precog dreams are a possible future and many are in face actual futures. Would this be a more refined form of DeJa Vu where the brain filters out Quantum states that are unlikely to happen so the more likely futures happen all of which would lead onto the domino effect.[/quote]

Hold on there. Much of the information that reaches our brains is discarded, pieced together, stitched across from blank spot to blank spot, and inferred from a system prone to illusion. If anything, the brain sifts and weights elements based on body state: one tends to remember emotional events more than everyday to the point of highway hypnosis or the traveling to or from work without remembering the trip. Happened to me a number of times. Kind of the brain saying "Seen it! What's on the other channels?"


There are many kinds of schizophrenia, and many symptoms: but the error is in the way we think, and it might be correctable i.e. also neurochemical, not the psyche of a person breaking up.

Actually, the more we learn about experience, encoding, and the like, especially from the schizophrenic, the more we can say about memory encoding. We have extremely short term memory, which is the continuity of objects, and normally it is encoded in a particular fashion. If it encoded slightly differently, it can "look" like a long-term memory instead, and fool us into thinking we've experienced the event a long time ago, rather than in the current extremely short-term memory episode we call "now."

There are a number of memory-encoding errors and experience-distorting problems that are prevalent and might be traceable to the same mechanism: psychotic breaks, where a person experiences the extremely short-term memory as a story or episode not really including the self; the opposite problem in some schizophrenics where a related event or event told to the person has the person's self-image imposed on it making it from a memory of a story to an episodic or self-experienced memory. I'm following a similar route in trying to explain abduction phenomena as poorly coded early memories of nighttime diaper changes with the modern "self" and ad-hoc interpretations superimposed on the memory.

Humans have some capacity for extending the current-memory events into the future as far as expectations go, and this might also extend into deja-vu, but precognition is not an endemic function. If one had the math smarts and psychology, one could reasonably predict some events and personality, but not to any precognition extent.

Good points

The predicting events and personality is actualy easily done, there was an experiment just recently on tv where psychologists took personality samples of a group of people they had never met and where all dressed in black and about 8/10ths of the time they were right (while they were dressed in black). But one of the psychologists made a guess that on a weekend away the "impulsive" people would set the kitchen on fire, low and behold the food started smoking and then set on fire.

I personaly have had "DeJa Vu's" where i can actualy remember when i had dreamed of it and just woken up and thought "wow what an odd dream", they have been even month long but once the DeJa Vu happens a big flood of when i dreamed it occours and i can remember the dream (quite easily ) and the moments after.

THis was how deja vu was explained to me... i could be wrong but i dont think so.

When one experiences something for the first time it is sent to short term memory first, to be later sent to long term memory at the appropriate time. When one experiences deja vu what happens instead is the new memory is sent to long term memory instead so if you try to compare what you are experiencing to your past you suddenly feel like you have done that exact same thing before.

Again this is just how it was explained to me. There could be other causes, that im not aware of.

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Thats one of the typical neurone miss fires which is used to dismiss it as just "something the brain does" like a mistake but if our brains made that many mistakes it could quite easily damage itself.

I play bass guitar and electric guitar and its quite easy to tell you that if i stopped and thought about everything i did i wouldn't get one second of a song out. Like if you stopped to think about driving a car you would crash straight away. The brain has a subconcious seemingly to keep your "concious" (of what we see) doing the important things that need more controled thought on.
What im thinking is that neurone "miss fire" is sometimes the cause but it happens to regularly and is too common for me to accept that its just my brain making a mistake. That essentialy everyone in the whole world has a mental disorder of a major degree is somewhat unnerving.

My DeJa Vu experiances some are just the wow thats odd ones but others like i said i can remember seeing them in a dream which i've just forgotten about over a couple of hours or days but our brain doesn't "forget" it just puts it in the "back of the cupboard" (so to speak) so that our brain doesn't get clogged down. So the my brain "missfiring" is either effecting the past (which i've written my dreams down before and had the deja vu of it weeks or months later) or it is something slightly bigger.

I dont know if you could catagorize deja vu in the sence that i explained it as a major brain disorder or even a minor one. I dont see where you are coming from in that regard. If you are experiencing dreams of an event then seeing similiaritys to real events at a later date then i wouldnt call that deja vu. Though i would be surprised if there was anymore to it then connecting imaginary dots which only connect the hits (similiaritys) and dissmissing the misses ( any details that just dont fit.) It doesnt sound like deja vu to me.

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

How many episodes of non-dream-predicted Deja-Vu do you experience in a day?

Just to add, my brother has had a dream like deja vu experience before,

It happend something like this... He dreamt a bank got robbed, later that week my parents, my brother and i were in a car and drove past a bank which had been robbed. Now, the way this makes sense to me is that when one dreams of a specific type of place or event it is relayed by examples of types of places and events that you have already experienced.. if you dream about a bank it most likely take the form of a bank you have seen or been inside of. So did he predict that that bank would be robbed? i dont think so. I think that he dreamt about a generic type of event. and when confronted with a more specific event it made his dream fit more easily. Its just odds that eventually someone will dream of some possible event shortly before something like it happens.

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Well i had 2 today, yesterday i had one, sat non, friday non. But monday to thursday which i was in a new place i had about 15 deja vu's through those 4 days and new place meaning completly never been there before, never seen the people, dont know any of the people except one teacher who i've never seen before but turns out to be my next door neigbour. I havent had a girl in my class for 5 years as i went to an all boys school and the girls in my health care course are from different schools some from different towns and most are 1 or 2 years older then me so wouldn't have been in any of my classes anyway. But i still manage to get deja vu's 2 of which where connected to a dream.

One being my (new) friend Amy saying something i'd never heard said before but remember it from the dream and it was to the word. I dismissed the dream because Amy looks like someone i know just blonde so i thought wow odd dream, but when it happened the person who asked her the question was stood about 1/2 a meter behind me and i could only see Amy and from the dream i remember being stood infront of the Abby national bank and when i looked up i could see the sign.

Worm Hunters example is one i used to dismiss it with but when i know non of the people and it was down to word specifics and hair colours and buildings that didn't even exist when i had the dream. (well the building did just not as an abby national bank as far as im aware anyway)

you bring up an interesting point about reading a sign.. I have been under the impression that in dreams you can not read. i have tried and failed though it could have been just because i already had the impression that you cant but if anyone knows if there is an truth to it i would like to know. But the reason i bring it up is how did you know where you were standing infront of if you had to read the sign?

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

How long ago did you have this dream?? [/quote]

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

"Misfires" in this context are software, not hardware. There are hardware problems that can severely affect memory processing - which is controlled by the hippocampus (located roughly near the center of your brain and behind each eye).

This is known as motor skill (or muscle memory) and is controlled by the cerebellum (located at the base of your brain where your neck meets your skull.) But there is an initial period of consciously learning the sequence, then patching all the pieces together. Do you seem to make more mistakes the first time or the hundredth? Placing more emphasis on an activity (such as practice) develops stronger associations (or pathways) in the brain. Strong emotional response can trigger the same types of associations to develop.

I'm a huge believer in defensive driving - scanning the road, looking for potential problems, and thinking in terms of contingencies. Most of this is in the form of conscious thought.

That's the real beauty of having distributed control centers. You can run from the lion and decide on the safest place available all in the same instant.

Now where did I set those car keys 3 minutes ago?

I've had the same compelling feeling as well. I tend to think that the event triggered a false association. Have you ever "remembered" that someone was with you - say on a fishing trip 2 years ago when in fact they were not there at all. You usually end up saying something like "Oh, that was Jane that was with me." or "You're right, we went fishing at that other lake."

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

Actualy i looked up to make sure it was the same bank as it spreads 2 buildings, the sign was in the window in my dream printed backwards so people inside could see the info but in my dream i could read it as it was all backwards (its hard to explain i'd draw it if i had a scanner).

The dream was about a week after finishing my GCSE's as it was about a week before my holiday aswell. But i havent been into the town centre all holiday which is when the buildings got changed into a bank aswell as several other shops into other shops.

Ummm i dont drive but i've forgotten i had contacts in which is actualy very common as you put them in once a day take them out once and dont notice them inbetween. The actualy forgetting something in your short term memory is from you not paying atention, my room is a "mess" but i know where everything is i dont even have to search because i remember putting it there when i need to. But i often lose guitar picks as they stick to your arms and drop off with out you noticing so i've made a note to pick things up that drop off me

It depends on if the pattern is familiar like two songs i play but the odd thing is when my brain and "subconcious" or muscle memory mix up the song. I play the start to same old story i end up playing american jesus because its the same frets for the start of the song.

I can honestly say i've never had one of those experiances but lifes still young for me im only 16 and as far as fishing with me goes unless jane was the shrub i caught or the branch i cought out of the oak tree behind me i dont think it was a trip i've been on
But i do get what you mean my parents do it a lot which is really annoying as they dont believe me even though they know i have a better memory then them.

I also wonder if me been left handed has anything to do with it as i was taught right handed aswell (stupid teacher that i hates fault and is now a head mistress some how) which has given me a symmetrical brain function. From tests i've taken i have a 3% more masculin brain and even left and right lobe activity but im mostly left handed now except for guitar so im left handed for all my day from 7am till 12pm excusing aprox 2 hours for guitar. (these are those like 50 question online tests)

Add: not that guitar matters as i use my left hand on the fret board so it does more work anyway with slides and hammer ons etc over strumming.

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Sounds to me like you're only describing "Imaging the Future." I can predict the future ("I'm going to a meeting tomorrow.") although it's not perfect (I could get sick and miss the meeting.) but I do pretty well at it--better than most pet psychics.

as for predicting the unthinkable, that's a different matter. such as, you'll hit a car, or, there will be an earth quake and your street will flood... or. you company gets bankrupt at a time of its highest earnings then there was scandal and you recieve all their assets, etc. or... a ferris wheel lands in your backyard. etc. etc. etc.

Wow. I have had maybe three episodes; one involved dropping a fork. This is a daily occurance for you?

Frankly, I'm intrigued. Regardless of the supposed mechanism, it would be interesting to study, especially if it occurs so frequently. Unfortunately, I'm not a psychiatrist, psychologist, or neurologist. Perhaps you should start keeping a journal of the deja-vu experiences, so you can get a more accurate count.

I would like to observe how nice it is that a topic like this can be discussed intelligently here. As opposed to certain other sites, where even posing the question would generate a flood of childish insults.

This is a great place. Carry on!

Thanks Daffy i was expecting disbelief and going against the grain but with other sites you just get burned for saying anything that is 'against the main steam'.

It depends on the day really, normally if im more tired i get more DeJa Vu's. Well thats normaly the rule which i just thought it was something to do with being tired. I drank espresso every morning, lunch and evening every day but i got a similar amout of DeJa Vu's.

But like the dream one which just kills me believing its just some random neurone activity. Simply because 1 the dream was with non of the places or people (different building to what was there i'd heard no plans for it being changed and people who i didn't even know existed). 2 when it happened i had a DeJa Vu of longer then just the dream with me being able to remember after. 3 it was a completly new place and new people all of which had never been in my long term memory.

Oh and im training to become a P.P.N. or M.H.P.N. = Psychiatric Practitioner Nurse or Mental Health Practitioner Nurse which basicly means im going to be a psychiatrist or psychologist (depending on where i work) doctor but with slightly less hard work but more hands on work with the patients. But just as a Degree Mental Health Nurse i could go off to teaching mental health psychology and many other types.
So i guess i might figure out whats wrong with me in a few years
But don't worry it doesn't meen me going im still studying physics in my part time.

Actualy most illnesses take several days sometimes weeks to manifest, it can take up to 4 days before you get the symptoms of influenza. My friend found out he'd had neumonia on a check up that he must have had for over 2 weeks with no symptoms showing other then a slight cold. So its safe to assume that the brain would know if its going to suddenly adjust how it works to combat a virus as most changes the brain makes are during the night or slowly through the day so you would get to your meeting.
I also fail to see the point of "Imagining the Future" being at all relative to how the brain functions. Halucinations seem perfectly real but people "imagine" them. It is actualy safe to say that you are effecting everything in the whole universe by simply having an electric field existing in your body as we know electric fields will eventualy effect all matter in the universe given enough time, just like gravity, what happens may be completly insignificant but may also not.
Nostradamus as often as he is dismissed for rhyming in quatrains using metaphors simply to avoid him being killed. He was right in as far as im aware all of his acounts. If its just imagining then he's pritty damn good at it. A dream can be more real then life itself.

My friend Jozie when we was walking to go get lunch today said "i've got a really bad feeling" as we got more down the road she decided to call to make sure her daughter was okay so she called up the nursery turns out her ex hadn't taken her in so she called up her ex and she couldn't get a hold of him about 10 mins later he called her up and said that she'd just been sick. 55 miles between her and her daughter she still knew something was wrong. Technicaly thats impossible right? Ummm well it happened but her daughter is fine so no worrys.
If the human brain could guess that right i think its proving that the brain isn't just a machine like what everyone assumes it is, like the body is just a machine. Yes sure it can be fixed but if you think of it like a machine you are more naive then an unborn child because the human body is capable of things we still don't have a clue about.

Simple. I just imagine what can possibly happen, and decide that some of those things aren't going to happen. That's one way I tell the future.

That's the issue, really: the internal difference between continuity, short-term, and long-term.

"Continuity" memory goes like this:
Sensory input ==> Continuity Memory Activated! Object sighted!
Sensory input ==> Oh, that's the same object as here ^
Sensory input ==> Oh, that's the same object as here ^
Sensory input ==> Oh, that's the same object as here ^

So we know it is the same object moment to moment.

Another thing that happens at the same time is this:

Sensory input ==> Continuity Memory Activated! Object sighted!
Continuity Memory ==> Short-term memory query: have we seen this before? Yes/No
Continuity Memory ==> Long-term memory query: have we seen this before? Yes/No
Return: Object Memory or No Reference ==> Continuity Memory

Well, if the signals get crossed---

Sensory input ==> Continuity Memory Activated! Object sighted!
Continuity Memory tagged as Long Term Memory ==> Continuity Memory: Oh, we've seen this before!

Bam! Deja-Vu.

This is just another way it could happen, and until more research is done, this is an alternative explanation to precognition.

Yes but my point is that in the newtonian laws time is fixed, in a world of posibilitys time is still fixed its just a lot less obvious. Like playing a game of checkers i always win cause i think about 10 moves ahead of everyone else. In turn these "thoughts" of reality become reality so therefore if i look back on it i was been precognative.
See the problem in what you say? Guessing the future is as good as precog.

Its true that, that could cause DeJa Vu and possibly acounts for many. But the human brain is configured in different ways with every person yet there are still base systems that are needed. That standard explination of DeJa Vu is an old and dry one as far as i see it. Just saying its a random brain miss fire when its of things that aren't understood yet and contains things that are unfarmiliar is one thing but that removes the "something similar happened" from the equation.
So its down to brain miss fires. Which the familiar feeling wouldnt pop up with every DeJa Vu if it was and random brain activity is actualy signs of certain mental disorders and some times even brain tumors. Both of which apply a pressure on the brain, all which effects the electric field in the brain and how it acts. So DeJa Vu could also be a form of psychosis, so a large majority of people have mental disorders?

See all together it doesn't quite add up to me.

Im still not sure why you consider a simple missfire as a brain disorder? Someone early on pointed out that forgeting where you put keys 3 minutes ago could fit as a brain disorder as well. To me the simple explaination given makes sense and shouldnt be brushed off so lightly. Could you please explain why you think it indicates a brain disorder?

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They call 'em fingers, but i've never seen em fing..... oh there they go!! otto

Because forgetting your keys is something you obviously do day in day out to leave your house or drive your car. You put them in a different place and instantly think to where you normaly put them and your short term memory is put to the back as you work in an autopilot kind of state. Its not a miss fire its a lack of attention.

Actually, yes. Cases of temporary psychosis or psychotic episodes (breaks with reality: the self as observer rather than participant) do occur, and can even be induced by stress. Memory assumption is the reverse side of this in many ways, as it is a long-term encoding issue. Also included in this puzzle would be "infantile amnesia" in which memories of "self" or endemic memories are lost or not recoverable from before 3 1/2 years of age generally. Infantile amnesia includes everyone, and is irrespective of age at which you are asked about memory: five-year-olds have the same success rate as thirty-somethings and octagenarians. There also appears to be a "wall" in the mind between self-generated thoughts and sensation and externally derived thoughts and sensation which breaks down in many schizophrenics: self-generated thoughts are incorrectly interpreted as originating externally. This wall can break down due to sleep deprivation (happened to me), fatigue, as well as through exposure to certain psychoactive drugs.

A large number of people do encounter these anomalies. It happens often enough for people to describe events like Deja-Vu (Hey, we have a word for it...) but it happens to most people on the same order at which I described it happening to me: one or two events in a long stretch of time. Which is why I'm intrigued by your account: you appear to be unique in experiencing deja-vu on an ongoing semi-regular basis. It would be an excellent opportunity to reasearch and to get to the bottom of the mechanism, precognitive or psychological. You could write a paper!

I seem to have a unique insight into this; be it brain assembly, mental disorder or any other infinite amount of posibilitys there seems to be. I dont opt for disecting my own brain though

The infantile memory barrier is an odd one. My earlyest memory is of been about 2 and i'll describe it exactly.
"I was sat in nursery which was a big brown porta cabin kind of construct down the road from my house. I was sat in the 'young' group which was seperated by a curtain and we were all sat down in rows and me being a very active child couldn't stay still. I remember looking behind me by just turning my neck which gave me a very nice neck pain but i remember seeing the pretty girl sat behind me. She was in a brown dress kind of thing with a white top under it." and thats where the memory ends. It feels odd remembering that far back but i dont have another memory till i was gone 3 and a half which i can remember alot from that age.

I honestly have no idea why i wanted to see if my neck could turn all the way around and when i think of it i just get a load of logical impressions which my mind seems to try and rationalise it with but i just know aren't correct. The only likely one is the toys i used to play with had heads that could turn fully round, the blue bodyed pink faced and yellow cap ones.

But if there is a mental barrier to stop us from getting billions of quantem event information could our whole memory of infancy be blanked out so this sudden flood never comes back? If our brain isn't developed enough for us to handle all this information then it would be logical for our brain to black canvas it all so non of the information gets through.
So we could have a reminant of this to keep our minds in check from all the quantem events that are currently happening only because of our development through infancy we develop a grasp onto a "safe" reality, which is ours ofcourse, and this reminant barrier stays to prevent any slips into another one of different quantem events.

Precog could be like a short psychosis episode... it would be a short psychosis episode in which some of the mental barriers are broken down during someone sleeping and a specific episode is played out and from my own experiance ends when the person wakes up. (with a really fuzzy feeling in their head and an odd feeling because its a "wow that feels so real" feeling)

Does this make some sense to anyone other then me?

No, I really don't, yet. I'm not talking about guessing the future. Is that what you are talking about?

Are you just saying precognition is a guess about the future? I could believe that.

That's part of the original surmise for the infantile amnesia period- but memory testing with infants of this age shows no deficit in the ability to remember things or events: what they saw on an outing, etc. That's part of the conundrum: memory for "facts" and "things" is not impaired; memory tests show no impairment around these ages, nor is there any sudden shift in the amount of recall; just this shift in "personal" memories.
But then we'd have to have some established ability for precognition- and we really don't Many of us have "feelings" that just don't pan out, but we don't remember those ones because they were "misses." Add to this the subconscious sometimes processes things that the conscious mind overlooks or doesn't see, and prods the conscious mind with its conclusions: a "gut feeling" is this kind of free-association thought that occurs in the background of most of our everyday thinking.

Im not saying precognition is or isn't a guess about the future simply because the guess will always be right and wrong. With no one around did the tree falling make a sound? you have to have an answer so both are always correct. Were talking about quantem events which have reactions in the quantem world, all of which lead up to ours.
So a guess is as good as actualy predicting the future because it is the same thing.

I've noticed in my cousins that are under the age of 3 that they can remember your name one of my cousins managed remembering my name even though he hadn't seen me since he was 19 months. But another of my cousins when he was 7 kept asking my aunt what he was like when he was as old as his little 2 year old brother.
The first few years of infant growth and mental development establishes our subconcious. Which has consiquences through the whole persons life. But in the first few years a child doesn't know right from wrong as all of this is taught by the parents and the childs development though these early years.
As the infantile amnesia period seems to be induced by the brain itself it could be that this is blocked out by the subconcious as a form of 'read-only' like on a hard disk. Some types of Psychosis schitzophrenia can actualy have memory impressions dating back to early child hood when the psychosis only develops in later life.
So if we simply can't remember our child hood we can't change it and can't change our subconcious. As our subconcious develops in early childhood from our experiances if in later life we could change these memorys would change our subconcious, our right and wrongs and so on.

Well if precognition is a form of unconcious psychosis most would be dismissed and forgotten like a dream is and a lot of people wake up and dont remember their dream or forget it quickly. Also most people would dismiss them as simply been a dream.
Gut feelings to me seem to be a kind of bypass so the subconcious doesn't have to give a reason to the concious. Around certain people i get a bad gut feeling so im more caucious and normaly the feeling pans out to be right, but i never know why i get a gut feeling or how my subconcious knows with in several minutes of meeting someone that they are going to do something bad.

I'm going to agree that guessing is as good as precognition.

But, me, I'm not going to call "guessing" precognition.