Don't recall seeing anything like that until now.

They're not hard to find. Just look in the non-Jerry posts for sentences that conclude with "?". While you're at it, please report back on any answers you might have found. Your pioneering efforts will be greatly appreciated. Then, perhaps you can explain exactly what it is (or given the multitude of changes of position and direction, what they are) that Jerry is trying to communicate.

Good luck!

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Oh my yes! Whaaat? Oh, that show! Good news, everyone!

Or at least for me, having recently completed the DVD collection with Volume 4. It was kind of sad when the player got to "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings", and really sad when Leela said "Please don't stop playing Fry. I want to hear how it ends." End of episode, end of show. Great cow of Moscow! What a shame...

To think that "Family Guy" was resurrected instead. Blast Fox to Hades!

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Jerry wrote:

Jerry, where does that figure of a terminal velocity of <1m/s come from? Huygens landed at 4.5m/s as has been pointed out to you on quite a few occasions when you implied it would smash into Titan.

More wooly thinking with yet another soutache of willfull serpentine evasion for direct questions will not get out of the hole you have dug for yourself. Please quote your sources for this terminal velocity or provide some calculations based on authenticated sources. Please remember also that I have already shown you why your low altitude panoramic conjecture is false. I can see where you are trying to go with this supposed terminal velocity to make that panoramic mosaic fit with your erronious scenario and it won't wash.

Toothmonkey your link doesn't work. Also, in case you are in any doubt I pose the above as a direct question (?) to Jerry and for everyones' benefit I repeat it:

Jerry, where does that figure of a terminal velocity of <1m/s come from?

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By asking questions we sometimes get the wrong answers, from wrong answers we learn to ask the right questions.

Yet you ignore the "personal opinions" of qualified scientists and engineers.
Invoking "new physics" without any supporting evidence or "career-limiting"-against-the-mainstream ideas, is commonly found in the claims of crackpots.

The schreeching noise of nails on mirror-glass is getting louder and louder.

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papageno


"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" - Hobbes (Calvin and Hobbes)

"It's all about context!" - Vince Noir (The Mighty Boosh)

"I've never heard of such a brutal and shocking injustice that I cared so little about!" - Zapp Brannigan (Futurama)

"...because the logic of the lines traced from reality is as poor of aesthetic value as it is strict in consistency. " - Paolo Bozzi (Naive Physics - free translation)

Quite quite....but I'll talke Family Guy over nothing at all! And until they bring it back...IF they bring it back....I've got access to all four seasons myself

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"The bread's hollowed out --- the veggies go on forever --- and --- oh my God! --- it's full of meat!" - Maksutov

Yes, another one of those intractable scientific terms: SOME. That is why it is SOMEWHAT impossible, at this time, to model the descent of Huygens with the information the EAS has released. FWIW the first text description supplied with the radar sound track implied it was a continuous sound bite and included the landing, Neither statement indicates the radar data is compressed. They state quite clearly the microphone audio is snipped.


This is based on an analysis of the sound byte. The analysis assumes the final rate of descent was 4.5 m/s, as stated by the ESA. There are two frequencies in the bite: the Time between samples and the pulse widths. If the pulse width is proportional to the velocity, if the probe was at terminal velocity, the derivative of the pulse width should be zero or slightly negative. It is not, in fact it is positive, indicating the probe was accelerating when it hit Titan. If it was accelerating and hit at 4.5 m/s, terminal velocity under the big parachute had to be <4.5 m/s, and since it appears to have accelerated for ~25 seconds, the initial rate would have had to have been very small, on the order of ~1m/s or less.

If anyone can fill in some real numbers, so I can quit guessing in my interpretations, it would be greatly appreciated.

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jwj

It's a big universe out there...is it really unwinding, really burning out?

Jerry wrote:
OK. I've looked at quite a bit of the design of Huygens, don't recall reading anything about a survival mode included in the probe.

What exactly does the Huygens probe do when it goes into "survival mode"? How does it correct itself if it's coming down to fast? Or too Slow? Are there little robots in the probe with little bot arms flailing around and screaming 'Danger Will Robinson'?

Gonna have to ask for proof of this survival mode. Link please.

This is too good, better than "We're from the government and we' re here to help you. "...Huygens did not need my help": does this tell you anything, Jerry? You should be getting two messages from this, loud and clear.

First, apparently you're of the school that believes that facts or lack thereof should never stand in the way of a favorite hypothesis. If the facts get in the way of the hypothesis, ignore them. If facts are lacking to support the hypothesis, just make them up as you go.

Second, you should have no problems getting to meet those people, whoever they are.

However, if you're looking to shake the hands of the persons who wrote the algorithms and programs that enabled the successful Huygens mission, which, of course, didn't need "survival mode"*, then, don't hold your breath, seeing as how they are probably busy doing useful things such as real science.

*Whatever that is supposed to be. It appears you are employing approximations of terminology used to describe the sleep mode Huygens was in during the 7-year trip to Saturn.

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No no no Jerry! The sampled throughout the entire dataset and presented a shorted version of the soundbyte...instead of the two hour one! They'll release the full one later on. This one was more of a PR clip. It's only a small representation of the FULL DATASET!

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"The bread's hollowed out --- the veggies go on forever --- and --- oh my God! --- it's full of meat!" - Maksutov

And it does say it was compressed. I downloaded the sound byte (notice how they even call it a byte?) directly from the ESA website, and the link says (drum-roll please...):

However grudgingly, in Jerry's defense, I will admit it no longer says that the auido has been compressed. But, I do remember it saying something to that effect earlier.

There is a link on the page I referenced above that will take you to the Planetary Society, http://planetary.org/sounds/huygens_sounds.html, where there is the entire two and a half hour decent compressed into 10 seconds, which may be where the idea of compression comes from, because that's obviously compression. Poking around on that site, going a few links deep, I ended up with this page, and this excerpt I will hilight:

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>~~~~<
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.

Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.

I would love to have evidence of a survival mode. There is an ESA document - (AS? 1177) that was available on the net before the mission, but it has been moved or withdrawn. It has the details of how Huygens would have responded in certain situations (High winds and so forth). I can’t remember what it said Huygens would do if the altimeters returned unexpected results – I remember a contingency plan of some sorts, but not the details.

Here is what I do know:

The first 110 sets of triplets are a combination of the final moments of Huygens on Titan interwoven with a very strange event: Either Huygens captured images of the heat shield ejecting and falling away, then bouncing; or a Titanian Mooned Huygens on the way down.

Since Huygen was suppose to wait 30 seconds after the heat shield was ejected, why were these images captured? If there was no survival mode, I cannot figure out why the heat shield did not pop off, or why the cameras did not wait as expected no matter who's physics I use.

After the mooning Titanian, there are ~30 cloudy triplets followed by the first images of 'river drainages'. There is precious little altitude varation in these sequences, although there is a pattern of image repetition and blurriness that is consistent with a swinging or rocking motion, rather than a fixed rotation.

Since there appears to be the same periodic effects in the Radar signature, especially for the final ~30 seconds, the radar images appear to be continuous and not clipped. If they are compressed, the periodic effects are very difficult to model. Uncompressed, they are very consistent with the swinging seen in a parachute that has just been deployed. (You can even see this in the ESA video of a test deployment of a Huygens simulator at ~30km.)

One other ESA statement I am curious about, is regarding the stability of the Doppler signal in channel B. The design criteria called for two ‘extremely stable’ oscillators, and full redundancy of everything except the wind (lateral) Doppler patterns and images.

What happened to the Ground Doppler on Channel B? Were they garbled and lost, or are they proving impossible to model, and therefore are assumed to be useless? How are they able to assign altitude to the images without any Doppler data? What is the ground radar telling us?

Thanks, Travis.

Why would there be two hours of the 'hiss and roar of wind' if much of the the descent was at or near a velocity of 5m/s? How did they determine the time scale for the uncompressed acoustic?

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jwj

It's a big universe out there...is it really unwinding, really burning out?

There were two ultra-stable ocsillators (USO). One on Huygens and one on Cassini and these were on Channel A. These were to support the Doppler Wind Experiment. Cassini's Channel A was not switched on and the data was lost. Channel B did not have a USO.

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