The Last Dragon

electromagneticpulse · #1 (**permalink**) 05-March-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channel 4, TV guide Synopsis

There is a creature that exists in the mythology of cultures as diverse as the Inuit and Aborigine. These cultures could never have met; yet they share an ancestral memory: the folklore of a flying, fire-breathing nightmare. What if dragons were real? The Last Dragon is an intelligent fantasy rooted in the natural world and built on credible science; a unique drama that uses state-of-the-art CGI to bring the legend to life. The adventure begins in the remote mountains of Eastern Europe where two young mountaineers have discovered an unexplored ice cave. As they crash through a wall of ice, they stumble across the remains of a fierce battle: a battle between men - now skeletons clad in blackened, melted armour - and what appears to be a huge beast, its contours discernible through the frosted glass of what has become an icy tomb. Local authorities are not entirely sure what has been discovered, and they quietly call in a renowned zoologist - whispered to have a controversial interest in dragons - to help them put the pieces together. As the scientist unearths the story of what happened in the cave, he begins to believe he is on the verge of the greatest zoological find of all time: undeniable evidence of the existence of dragons. Suddenly, the artefacts, fossils and literature he has collected over the years have new meaning. His quest is now not only to uncover what happened in this cave centuries ago, but to piece together the rise and fall of this once-mighty species. Through vivid CGI and cinema graphic re-enactments, The Last Dragon will come back to life. Dir: Justin Hardy; Prod: Ceri Barnes; Exec Prods: John Smithson, David McNab, Alice Keens-Soper; Prod Co: Darlow Smithson

Did anyone else in the UK see this?
I'd have to say it used some of the best devils advocate arguments ever in it, even ones i'd come up with when having devils advocate arguments over it.

frogesque · #2 (**permalink**) 05-March-2005, 08:52 PM

Sorry, the last dragon is alive and well in a disused anthracite mine in darkest Wales :^o

Donnie B. · #3 (**permalink**) 06-March-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogesque

Sorry, the last dragon is alive and well in a disused anthracite mine in darkest Wales :^o

That's no dragon, it's a wyvern.

Kesh · #4 (**permalink**) 06-March-2005, 08:47 PM

I'm just waiting on Dunkelzahn to give his first interview.

Nergal · #5 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

Did anyone else in the UK see this?
I'd have to say it used some of the best devils advocate arguments ever in it, even ones i'd come up with when having devils advocate arguments over it.

Hasn't aired in the US yet...if memory serves it's airing on March 20th.

captain swoop · #6 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogesque

Sorry, the last dragon is alive and well in a disused anthracite mine in darkest Wales :^o

Don't be silly, He lives in Ivor the Engines Firebox

Paul Mitchell · #7 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 01:22 PM

It does remind me of a programme I once saw that tried to put together a resonable case for dragons, which went something along the lines of:

A large reptile with a large capcity and very acidic stomach. The stomach acid could be used to generate hydrogen from various food sources (as a chemist this is the bit I find most troublesome).

The hydrogen could be retained in sacs withing the body effetively creating a balloon, leading to it's ability to fly. This would require the dragon to live in a cave as shelter from high winds. The wings and associated musculature would not be required to generate lift but just to steer, which might just be possible for such a large creature.

Because a large part of its volume would be hydrogen sacs (especially if it had enough to fly) attempts to kill it would be difficult as the vital organs make up a relatively small part of the animal. Also the penchant for "magical" swords being required to kill one migh be explained by the damage to ordinary weapons caused by puncturing the stomach and so being exposed to a high concentration of hydrochloric acid (HCl).

And last, and most obviously, the hydrogen could be burnt off to create the "breathing fire" legend. Again I'm not clear on the ignition procedure, or how the dragon avoids setting fire to itself.

Finally, on the death of the dragon it capcious stomach acids destroy the bulk of the carcas leaving us with no skeletons etc to confirm their previous existence.

I have also heard theories using phosphine gas (PH3) as this spontaneously combusts on contact with oxygen (O2), but this is heavier than air so the dragon really would need wings to fly.

Paul Mitchell · #8 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain swoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogesque

Sorry, the last dragon is alive and well in a disused anthracite mine in darkest Wales :^o

Don't be silly, He lives in Ivor the Engines Firebox

And eating the anthracite presumably

electromagneticpulse · #9 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mitchell

It does remind me of a programme I once saw that tried to put together a resonable case for dragons, which went something along the lines of:

A large reptile with a large capcity and very acidic stomach. The stomach acid could be used to generate hydrogen from various food sources (as a chemist this is the bit I find most troublesome).

The hydrogen could be retained in sacs withing the body effetively creating a balloon, leading to it's ability to fly. This would require the dragon to live in a cave as shelter from high winds. The wings and associated musculature would not be required to generate lift but just to steer, which might just be possible for such a large creature.

Because a large part of its volume would be hydrogen sacs (especially if it had enough to fly) attempts to kill it would be difficult as the vital organs make up a relatively small part of the animal. Also the penchant for "magical" swords being required to kill one migh be explained by the damage to ordinary weapons caused by puncturing the stomach and so being exposed to a high concentration of hydrochloric acid (HCl).

And last, and most obviously, the hydrogen could be burnt off to create the "breathing fire" legend. Again I'm not clear on the ignition procedure, or how the dragon avoids setting fire to itself.

Finally, on the death of the dragon it capcious stomach acids destroy the bulk of the carcas leaving us with no skeletons etc to confirm their previous existence.

I have also heard theories using phosphine gas (PH3) as this spontaneously combusts on contact with oxygen (O2), but this is heavier than air so the dragon really would need wings to fly.

The fire breathing was hydrogen + oxygen with a platinum catalyst (not a chemist don't know if it works.)

The dragon wasn't a big hydrogen tank either it just had a second pair of lungs to add buoyancy and it had massive wings to enable it to get enough lift and light weight bird like bones.

One thing with the hydrogen is it already collects in the human body in our joints and the popping sound when we crack them is this gas being displaced in the fluid. However this liquid builds up over time and not just from one meal.

I have always found it interesting how tales of dragons cover the whole planet yet the only argument I’ve heard to dismiss this is the komodo dragon one. Yet they live in Indonesia, unless of course they didn't tell us they took trips to medieval Europe :roll:

Also I’ve been asked "How could they keep their blood warm being such large reptiles?" my answer, well they would have two big and honking wings on their backs with thousands of capillaries in them working like a solar panel to heat their bodies.

They also tackled the 6 limbs with a genetic mutation like a drastic 6 finger mutation.

I wouldn’t mind some hydrogen/helium pouches though, it would save time not having to lose weight

Bozola · #10 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mitchell

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain swoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogesque

Sorry, the last dragon is alive and well in a disused anthracite mine in darkest Wales :^o

Don't be silly, He lives in Ivor the Engines Firebox

And eating the anthracite presumably

Raw coal? That's absurd. Everyone knows that Dragons are coke fiends.

Paul Mitchell · #11 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

The fire breathing was hydrogen + oxygen with a platinum catalyst (not a chemist don't know if it works.)

Well I don't know of such a thing (not at room temperature anyway), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

The dragon wasn't a big hydrogen tank either it just had a second pair of lungs to add buoyancy and it had massive wings to enable it to get enough lift and light weight bird like bones.

How do extra lungs add bouyancy unless they're full of hydrogen, say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

One thing with the hydrogen is it already collects in the human body in our joints and the popping sound when we crack them is this gas being displaced in the fluid. However this liquid builds up over time and not just from one meal.

I didn't know that. BTW when you said liquid did you mean gas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

I wouldn’t mind some hydrogen/helium pouches though, it would save time not having to lose weight

No comment

electromagneticpulse · #12 (**permalink**) 07-March-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mitchell

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

The fire breathing was hydrogen + oxygen with a platinum catalyst (not a chemist don't know if it works.)

Well I don't know of such a thing (not at room temperature anyway), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

True, they ate a platnium containing rock and when they exhaled from both sets of lungs it was like a flame thrower. The ignition system being almost external means it wouldn't burn anything internal maybe just get a bit of a hot mouth, but the heat would be contained in the 'flame' that moves away from the body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mitchell

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

The dragon wasn't a big hydrogen tank either it just had a second pair of lungs to add buoyancy and it had massive wings to enable it to get enough lift and light weight bird like bones.

How do extra lungs add bouyancy unless they're full of hydrogen, say?

The first set of lungs was full of normal air and the second collected hydrogen but didn't breathe in and only out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mitchell

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

One thing with the hydrogen is it already collects in the human body in our joints and the popping sound when we crack them is this gas being displaced in the fluid. However this liquid builds up over time and not just from one meal.

I didn't know that. BTW when you said liquid did you mean gas?

My mistake

ops: switching between a conversation about the venusian atmosphere (like being 1km under a 400C ocean.) and typing this.

Charlie in Dayton · #13 (**permalink**) 09-March-2005, 07:21 AM

Hey. a little anthracite, a few White Castle hamburgers, a spark from a tooth filling...instant flamethrower...

Paul Mitchell · #14 (**permalink**) 09-March-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie in Dayton

Hey. a little anthracite, a few White Castle hamburgers, a spark from a tooth filling...instant flamethrower...

I think I personally favour some sort of spark ignition scheme too, although I would go for something electrical.

Electric eels can generate significant voltages, and some nice pointy raptor teeth might do for for electrodes :P

PS By raptor I mean carnivore reptile, not bird of prey, they don't even have teeth of course

Bounced Check · #15 (**permalink**) 09-March-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

One thing with the hydrogen is it already collects in the human body in our joints and the popping sound when we crack them is this gas being displaced in the fluid. However this liquid builds up over time and not just from one meal.

Slight nit pick - the sound from cracking one's knuckels comes from a combination of carbon dioxide and nitrogen in the fluid between the joints, not hydrogen. Source 1 and source 2.

electromagneticpulse · #16 (**permalink**) 09-March-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bounced Check

Quote:

Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse

One thing with the hydrogen is it already collects in the human body in our joints and the popping sound when we crack them is this gas being displaced in the fluid. However this liquid builds up over time and not just from one meal.

Slight nit pick - the sound from cracking one's knuckels comes from a combination of carbon dioxide and nitrogen in the fluid between the joints, not hydrogen. Source 1 and source 2.

Where in gods name did my biology teacher from school get his degree, okay I’m disregarding all biology I’ve been taught before I joined college 8)

Bounced Check · #17 (**permalink**) 12-March-2005, 05:54 PM

It'd be far more enjoyable if it were hydrogen. One could simpley allow the build up and the lighter gas would releive some of the stress on one's old bones as you floated away!

TravisM · #18 (**permalink**) 13-March-2005, 02:36 AM

I saw a clip of this on a website, I mentioned it to a guy who shares my office and he found it, so I don't have it handy.

The 'mocumentary' was a good term, in the style of walking-with-dinos. Apparently, it would have evolved from dinos, the hydrogen would have been to, initially, creep through forests better. Neat idea, really, but no merit without skeletal evidence. Not that fossil remains would help the 'hydrogen sack' existance...

Jpax2003 · #19 (**permalink**) 13-March-2005, 04:09 AM

I haven't seen the mockumentary yet, but couldn't a dragon's fire be something akin to the blast from a bombadier beetle? I also thought that there was evidence that many dynosaurs were warm-blooded.