Here’s a theory I just whacked up on the Roswell crash.

Texas Town Bombed by the Japanese

Roswell Location
Jet Stream today
Roswell Incident

Now here's my quick account of what could of happened.

The Japanese experimented with a new type of hydrogen balloon. Made of a metal balloon to possibly prevent an attempt to take the balloon out with anti-balloon fire.

The balloon exploded as it began to descend, this explosion caused (by design or not) an explosion in the hydrogen balloon. This sent chunks of metal like shrapnel down to the ground and scattered it around possibly along with parts of an anti-personnel bomb.

The first announcement could have been foolish mistake similar with the second. I don't know i wasn't around in 1947 and I wasn't in the US military. It just makes sense after 9000 hydrogen balloons being launched on America they might not want another 9000 more that are even more deadly being launched.

The metal obviously wouldn't have burnt if it was intended for use as shrapnel to injure people. Disfigured bodies, well they had been left there several days in the desert and for their discovered location would likely have been hit by shrapnel and possibly some of the explosion if it was a late detonation of the anti-personnel or incendiary weapon.

The US armies attempts to 'cover up' the UFO rumours could simply be that no one wants aliens attacking their country just 2 years after the end of a world war or mass panic for that matter.

Or maybe it was really a weather balloon. Possibly a US air force study on the jet stream into the strength of it and the balloon exploded for an unknown reason, lightning strike maybe or it could have been designed to do that after the data had been collected on how long it took a heavier balloon to travel through the jet stream.

Anyway that’s me done for today

That would be some really high class hydrogen balloon that kept going around the earth for two years after the war ended.

I was wondering that the carred remains of "small statured" japanese fellahs would look like... :-? ALIENS!
:wink:

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Feynman
>~~~~<
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.

Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.

'Cept V-J Day was August 6, 1945...

CJSF

Aw crap... I see I was ToSeeked on this by someone.

Oh well

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Two years ago moved from my town
I was looking up past the city lights
But the city lights got in my way

See the constellation ride across the sky
No cigar, no lady on his arm
Just a guy made of dots and lines

-from "See The Constellation"
by They Might Be Giants

I remember reading somewhere that the UFO researcher John Keel had at one time speculated on this so you aren't alone in the speculation.

Where it falls apart in addition to the comments already made about the timing/lifespan issue is that the initial incident on the Foster ranch that started all this made no mention whatsoever of bodies. Neither Brazell, Marcel, or Cavitt reported bodies at the debris site. The inclusion of bodies did not come until years later when the debris field somehow morphed into a crashed spacecraft.

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The law requires that I answer no!

Well i've only had the misfortune of reading the 5 tons of baloney put out by all the UFO 'fanatics'. I've got a list of words i'd rather call them but i think 99% of them would be banned on the BABB.

Jesse Marcel Jr.'s accounts from hypnosis can't be taken as evidence in the slightest. I'm fortunately one of the highly resistant people but some of my friends have been put under and said/done things they normally wouldn't and were in no way forced. One acted like a chicken and a sly remark can make them turn bright red from embarrassment while in privacy yet they can do that in front of about 50 people. I wouldn't have any problem saying a load of nonsense about alien spacecraft... dammit I’m a writer I can do it already!

Also what does the end of the war matter, the Japanese gave little resistance but after war there is always some resistance and the Japanese are an extremely proud people. All that would have taken was one person, ex-worker, some hydrogen and knowing where a prototype one was stored. Or like I said it could have been a US air force study on the jet stream.

Yeah, the "bodies" were an add-on to Roswell and reflects the tendancy by some promotors when it comes to classic UFO lore. Seems there's two of everything when the flaws of the initial "incidents" are exposed. Some examples:

Roswell - It is claimed there were two crash sites by some. The "other" disc contained the bodies.

MJ-12 Documents - These documents are tied into the Roswell mythos. Proved to be a hoax, Friedman et al claim there's a second set of legitimate documents.

Rhendelsham Forest - When the SciFi Channel did a special on this incident a few years back they brought some of the original "witnesses" to the alleged UFO landing site outside the US Base and .. the ex-airmen couldn't agree on where it landed!! No problem, Bryant Gumble just "broke" the story that there appears to have been another landing site that fateful night!

Phoenix Lights - Everyone saw the video, many saw the Discovery Channel special that seems to conclusively demonstrate that these lights were flares. Well, it seems that the real UFO incident that night happened 2 hours earlier before the military conducted their exercise. Only these witnesses didn't bother capturing this slow-moving object on film for some reason. There's been rumors of an earlier military exercise, a practical joke performed by a Canadian air show team that was down in the states at the time, flying their Tudors and aware of the current Hale Bopp hooplah, but I think it was just that one incident myself based on the lack of any corroborating footage.

The aliens in the autopsy film don't look anything like a person.

Post deleted by the Bad Astronomer.

Tone it down. You might want to read the ground rules in the FAQ page, otherwise your stay here will probably be short lived.

This isn't the sort of site where your *hate* nonsense will be tolerated. Brady is entitled to his opinion, a difference of opinion doesn't equal a "lie".

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Damn! I didn't know that Archer. I always knew UFO 'fanatics' invented parts of their stories but I thought it was just like lawyer talk. The good ones don't lie they just overlook the bad part kind of thing.

I mean they have good imaginations etc but they have zero creativity if they're flogging a horse that died in a 'UFO' crash in 1947. The UFOlogists only get published because publishers look at the market and see all the hoopla being made is going to get them some good money.

Like this photo, okay there’s supposedly a UFO, Helicopter, Spaceship or something in it. But then I can make out the Playboy bunny, a giraffe and some things that lead me to wonder what that specific Egyptian got up to at night. But that's my imagination!

Maybe the crash caused the people to shrink and turn into latex covered dolls :wink:

I think that the Project Mogul was a cover for another balloon experiment, but in any case the classified nature of the project was the reason for the secrecy. Something crashed in 1947, and there was some kind of problem with the debris, but how this became the urban legend is the problem. I do not see the connection, in the sense of how unexplained objects or incidents become extraterrestrial automatically, the way that anyone having syncope or sleep paralysis these days get abducted by gray aliens..

Dale in Ala

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"Ad astra per aspera"

The aliens in the autopsy film don't look anything like a person.

Hence the term: alien.

Hoax though it was.

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The law requires that I answer no!

I always wondered why the majority of sexually distressed Middle American wives got abducted by aliens and were supposedly probed in 'intimate areas'. It was like the Oprah show on the Discovery channel 8)

Nope, there are plently of males who claim alien abduction as well. Examples, the Alagash group (all males out camping) that Travis Walton fellow and the men who were interviewed on the latest UFO/Peter Jennings program. Your generalization strikes me as being a bit sexist. Apparently, males can be "sexually distressed" and claim alien abduction just as easily as females, Oprah not withstanding.

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

I agree with N C More... Your most does seem unnecessarily and unfairly gender-biased.

I strongly suspect that if the majority of sexually distressed anybody were abducted by aliens, there'd be way more reports of alien abduction. but that's beside the point.

Unsolved History, on the Discovery Channel, actually did an excellent job of reporting about Roswell last year, unto faking an alien crash site and hauling a group of laypeople past it. (they told them what it was after, so they didn't start new rumours.) they showed the exaggeration that memory can cause in just a few weeks. imagine how much worse it would be after a few decades.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Well the last thing I intended was it to sound sexist. I simply gave it as an example, the human psyche improvises companionship if they find themselves with little to no contact with other people. I bet anyone who's sexually distressed (male or female) that have claimed to be abducted and used in sexual experiments if they went to counselling or found a way to handle it or sort the problem would stop having dreams about being abducted.

Similarly I remember men on the program talking about how they had been abducted and later when they had been abducted again were shown 'their' offspring. The man was single and had no children, maybe it's just a coincidence and the people being abducted are really being abducted.

I've never seen anyone try and connect these things to rational explanations. Aliens come to earth, abduct sexually distressed people... WHY?!

If they want to breed people with aliens for making a supreme hybrid species why in gods name would they pick people that have emotional problems? Wouldn't they go after the Olympic athletes, the Einstein’s and generally people who feel self fulfilled. They would pick people at the Self-Actualisation/Self-transcendence part of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and not the people not even meeting the Belongingness &amp; Love Needs level.


The 'I was abducted' is a load of nonsense. All the aliens seem to fit the 'gray' description, but hey almost everyone has seen 'the alien autopsy' and hey the descriptions almost perfectly match to the degree I would say anyone waking up from a dream can have. Also when in a dream nothing is real it's made up by a persons mind to try and solve problems, ever heard the expression 'sleep on it' well that’s where it comes from. I believe the alien abductions are simply and only the mind trying to solve a problem. Despite whether or not the person agrees (they can’t psycho analyse themselves) because I’m completely happy being single, yet it doesn’t mean I haven’t had dreams about being in a relationship. Now add 10 or 20 years to this problem and yes I just might be dreaming about having a relationship with a 5 feet tall gray alien on a spaceship, heck I might even have kids with one.

I don't believe aliens would visit this planet and do what they are claimed to do, heck if they can abduct people without anyone knowing and create hybrids I think they could simply enslave the planet and do it without the cloak and dagger nonsense. I don't believe aliens would abduct people who are having dreams about being abducted and having kids with aliens. I don't believe a UFO crashed at Roswell and I find the people who claim it simply lack the creativity to come up with their own stories.

I agree with the reasons cited by EMP above. I wonder why almost no writers in the UFO field, except for John Keel have mentioned the amazing similarities to the middle ages and the Incubus and Succubus fad, or the later Witchhunting craze??? (cf: "Malleus Maleficarum" et al.) Today the culturally adjusted version is a Gray Alien with a sexual agenda.

Dale in Ala

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"Ad astra per aspera"

I believe alien abductions are a sleep disorder-type thing and the alien component is simply a contemporary cultural manifestation. Before "grays" it was the succubus or incubus as vonmazur touched on. You have to remember that most "alien abductions" are culled through regressive hypnosis, which has come under fire lately for being unreliable. The "abductees" comprise both genders (Whitley Strieber for instance was writing mediocre scifi before he hit it big with his Communion trilogy) and AFAIK those that have been psychoanalyzed have been shown to have no greater psychological issues, sexual and otherwise, than the rest of the general population.

The biggest flaw in this abduction thing (besides the absurdity-factor) is how no one has managed to get these abductions on tape, especially when most abductees claim they are taken multiple times.

Getting back to Roswell, the Project Mogul explanation works for me. The project was top secret at the time, the thing came down and was found by a civilian, Cold War paranoia was rampant at that time (2 years before the USSR had The Bomb).

The so-called second site is an add-on which appeared later. There is disagreement if it was multiple ufos or just one. The "bodies" were probably just crash test dummies found in the desert. Yes, the crash test dummies were a couple of years later, but if you are asked questions about 1947 in the 80's and 90's, how can you remember exactly when you saw what? The first crash site was not very impressive (the material was flimsy and had some balsa wood like sticks with some tape with strange symbols - which you could find on tape sold during that time...), so the "second site" was a lot more impressive: dead aliens, big spaceship, etc. What people are recalling as a single event is actually a mixture of several events that occurred in different years.

The way in which a classified spy project get turned into "Alien Autopsy", is enough to make one nostalgic for R. Shaver and the Deros!!! At least no one tried to make us believe it, it was obvious fiction. (Some did take it seriously.....) My Father was involved in this supposed crash, and he told me that the wreckage was unusual, but he said that years later he heard the urban (military?) myth involving the the bodies, and wondered where that came from, all of this before 1960 and while he was still on active duty with the USAF. I think that the "war story", once it got started became gospel to the true believers, and now with the passage of the years, it has acquired a certain cachet as a real event. I think that several events were telescoped together, and the civilian writers have made this into a legend, and with the movies and culture of the 50's it has become a cultural icon..

Dale in Ala

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"Ad astra per aspera"

I'd be interested in knowing how your father viewed the Project Mogul explanation for the original crash? Did the debris he saw seem consistant with what one would use for high altitude spying on the USSR? Most of what comes out about Roswell is so entwined with myth that it's literally impossible to figure out what's what, let alone figure out what "really" happened.

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

Be glad to: My Dad was Master Sergant and Flight Engineer on several classic planes--B 29, B 50, B 36, C 97 and C 124--He stated that in late 1947 he was involved in ferrying some strange wreckage that was sealed in a container, which was loaded into the bomb bay of a B 29. The crews would fly this stuff on one leg of the trip, and then hand the plane to the next crew, and take their aircraft back to New Mexico. The eventual destination of this stuff was in Tennessee, not Dayton Ohio!! The facility was located near Oak Ridge and is now called The Arnold Air Development Center. The reason for all the sealing and limiting exposure was due to some sort of contamination or radioactivity by the materiels.

I think the Mogul balloon carried something that was slightly radioactive, the function of which is unknown to me. I also think that the Mogul was launched into the jet stream to capture particles of any Soviet A bomb test, and then it was returned to earth, and the particles examined for their isotopes, if any, to determine if the Russkies had set off a bomb.

My Dad said that the breifing was; that the wreckage was some sort of foil like materiel and some sort of structure made of specially treated wood, along with some kind of alloy structure, the breifing officer showed them samples of the stuff, and explained that the container was not to be opened account possible contamination. I do not know if they meant contamination by post use exposure or contamination from actual usage, or if they used some kind of film which had to be sealed and shielded to prevent obscuring traces or results from the jet stream. I do not know why they used a tank like container or why they used bombers to transport this. My Dad did say that sometimes the materiel was moved by train, but I have no further information on just what was too heavy to be transported by air, if that is why they used railroads instead of aircraft.

There was something odd about this whole thing in New Mexico and West Texas in that time period. My relatives in New Mexico were always talking about this in hushed tones around the kids, like it was a big secret of some sort. My Dad only told me about the whole thing much later, in 1957, when I was 10 years old. My elderly aunt living in Artesia NM was always talking about something that happened in 1947, in or around Albuquerque. I never got any more than this about the happening in July 1947 and later in NM. I think the secrecy surrounding the whole era was due to paranoia about Joe Stalin and the A bomb, not dead midgets from somewhere else, or whatever they were supposed to be.

Dale in Ala

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"Ad astra per aspera"

Cold war paranoia has always seemed to me to offer a really good explanation. The only lingering doubt I have is that original press release stated that we had captured a "flying disc" and Dr. Edgar Mitchell claims to have seen documentation supporting the "disc" story. Still, it could be that the UFO angle was simply cooked up and used as a cover for spying on the Russians. It's now developed a sort of "life of it's own" and I doubt that it will ever be completely nullified.

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

You might care to look at thîs:

Roswell Press Release 1947