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Old 17-March-2005, 11:04 PM
Lunatik Lunatik is offline
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Default Planet Spin as Function of Interior Heat?

FROM THE HUYGENs THREAD, I OFFERED THIS SET OF EQUATIONS TO SHOW PLANETARY SPIN RATIOS AS A FUNCTION OF VARIABLE E & G, as per below.

The purpose for this equation was to find a relationship between planetary interior heat and the energy levels within which planets orbit. There seems to be a relatively good fit, if not exact, so I solicit any ideas that might expose possible flaws in this reasoning.

If anyone has any comments or criticisms, they would be appreciated. Thanks.

Ivan/ aka 'Lunatik'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
PLANETARY SPIN RATIOS PER AXIOMATIC EQUATIONS AS A FUNCTION OF OF VARIABLE E & G:

Taking planetary black-body heat in Kelvin and planet's orbit Energy, per Axiomatic, we can arrive at a spin ratio, SR, which will yield each planet's spin as measured in earth days. The resulting equation is:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

where:
SR = Spin Ratio for planets
PK = Planet Kelvin, black-body heat
PE = Planet orbit solar Energy, per Axiomatic
VK = Venus Kelvin, base planet spin (245 days retro spin, per 244 days orbit), here as base spin "zero" (where Kelvin and Energy nearly equal)
VE = Venus Energy, per Axiomatic
planetary orbit = in Earth days
planet spin = in Earth days (or fraction of Earth day)
AU = G'/G, ratio of planet's G' and Earth's G, linear deltaG = ~7.2E-11 per AU
(AU)^1/2 = same as square root of (G'/G)
Spin Ratio = SR, a Kelvin and Energy dependent number, which when Earth's SR (2.32) is divided by planet's SR yields daily planet spin.
x = times
:/: = divided by
VK/VE = (2.317K/17.33E+16 J) = 13.36E-16 , which is a ratio, used in SR equation above, as a base for Venus (near zero) parity.

The above equation for Earth yields:

(254.3K/9E+16J) :/: (13.36E-16) x (254.3K/231.7K) :/: (365/365) :/: (1) x (1) = 2.32

Tables of above values, where orbit and spin are in Earth days, and SR is as calculated per equation above:

AU; PLANET; P-KELVIN; P-ENERGY; ORBIT; SPIN; (AU)^1/2; SPIN RATIO

0.39 ; Mercury; 442K ; 60.55E16 J; 88 days; 58.8 ; 0.624 ; 0.0456
0.72 ; Venus ; 231.7K ; 17.33E16 J; 245 ; -244 ; 0.850 ; 0.005 (this is is way off - retro) ?
1.0 ; EArth ; 254,3K ; 9E16 J ; 365 days; -1- ; 1 ; 2.32 (base SR)
1.5 ; Mars ; 210.1K ; 3.86E16 J; 687 ; 1.03 ; 1.225 ; 2.246
5.2 ; Jupiter ; 110K ; 0.335E16 J; 4329 ; 0.415 ; 2.28 ; 5.41
9.5 ; Saturn ; 81.1 K; 0.1004E16J; 10753 ; 0.455 ; 3.08 ; 4.97
19.2; Uranus ; 58.1K ; 0.024E16J; 30660 ; 0.718 ; 4.38 ; 3.21
30 ; Neptune ; 46.6K ; 0.01E16J ; 60225 ; 0.673 ; 5.48 ; 3.69
39.5 ; Pluto ; ~37.5K ; 0.006E16J ; 90520 ; 6.3 ; 6.28 ; 0.304

Divide Earth's SR = 2.32 (which is our1 day spin) by any of the above planetary SR's, and you will find a close match to actual spin in Earth days. Here's the lineup:

Merc: 2.32/0.0456 = ~51 (vs. actual 58.8 )
Ven: 2.32/ 0.005 = ~464 (way off by ~x2! vs. actual -245)?
Ear: 2.32/2.32 = 1 day (our home planet's spin)
Mar: 2.32/ 2.246 = ~1.033 (vs. 1.03 actual)
Jup: 2.32/ 5.41 = ~0.428 (vs. 0.415 actual)
Sat: 2.32/ 4.97 = ~0.467 (vs. 0.455 actual)
Uran: 2.32/3.21 = ~0.723 (vs. 0.718 actual)
Nept: 2.32/ 3.69 = ~0.629 (vs. 0.673 actual)
Plut: 2.32/ 0.304 = ~7.63 (vs. 6.3 actual) ?

You can see from the above that Venus is way out of line (it has retro spin) and Pluto are off by more than 20%, Mercury is off by 12%, but the other planets are a fairly close fit. Consering I am working with rough estimates, taken from Nasa Planet tables, and used mean distances for the planets, the spin ratios as a function of planetary heat and orbit Energy come in fairly close to actual spin.

Coincidence? Numerology? Handwaving? Woowoo? Against the Mainstream? Some will think it odd, others will dislike intensely, or not believe it, and call it gibberish. Fine error? Gross error? But these are the numbers as they work out. They clearly show that there seems to be a relationship between planetary interior heat and the Energy levels in which their orbits reside, factoring in a variable G, as per the equation above. I think it interesting enough to think about some more, maybe get better K numbers, especially Mercury and Pluto, and work it out with better orbital numbers. New physics? Maybe... I am sure "careful eyes will be narrowly watching"...

Does this prove the Axiomatic Equation? Not to my mind. But it offers one more reason to go out there and look for a variable Newton's G 'proportional'. What say you now? Hogwash? I'll be curious to see your reactions. I suggest we start a different thread, since this one's run pretty deep already. This above is not a formal paper, which I will write at another time with full explanations.


Sorry guys, you won't find any of this in any textbook, it's a BABB first!

[Edited to fix Venus orbit & spin days.]
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Old 18-March-2005, 12:18 AM
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I had thought that planetary rotation was a function in relation to mass, density, and volume. Planets rotate in the same direction of their revolution, which is shown in almost every major body in the system. The major difference is in Venus, which has a very slow retrograde rotation. Methinks a large impactor collided with Venus early on, causing the rotation to slow dramatically, even stopping it and reversing the rotation. Keep in mind that the Venusian day is longer than the Venusian year. That must have been one hell of a show to watch. Whatever hit Venus must have been big, and hit it at the right angle. With the impactor that collided with the Earth, the ejecta coalesced into the Moon, and helped stablize the rotation of the Earth.
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Old 18-March-2005, 08:32 AM
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What about satellites (like Jupiter's and Saturn's)?
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Old 18-March-2005, 09:26 AM
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I have given my comments so far in the erratically named 'Potential threat' thread.
Basically, from a mathematical point of view the equation is way too complicated (you don't need PK, for example, and the need for all the constants isn't clear either), and from a logical point of view, you use spin in the equation and you use the result of the equation to calculate spin again.

A third criticism, that I haven't posted there: how can your result (spin ratio) for Venus be positive, if one of the elements you are multiplying with is negative? Perhaps you better check the equation and all the calculations, and come back again then...
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Old 18-March-2005, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
I have given my comments so far in the erratically named 'Potential threat' thread.
Basically, from a mathematical point of view the equation is way too complicated (you don't need PK, for example, and the need for all the constants isn't clear either), and from a logical point of view, you use spin in the equation and you use the result of the equation to calculate spin again.
When I reworked it the way you suggested, rather than PK dropping out, it came out (PK)^2, and got same results, so the original equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR became:

(PK)^2/PE :/: (13.36E-16/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

I'm doing this from memory (notes not with me) but got same results (but not 100% sure I got it right). But this way may be easier to deal with, though results should be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
A third criticism, that I haven't posted there: how can your result (spin ratio) for Venus be positive, if one of the elements you are multiplying with is negative? Perhaps you better check the equation and all the calculations, and come back again then...
Venus is off the charts, because of its retro spin, so used it only as a best guess basis for near zero spin, though I confess that is only a rough estimate. The results for Venus puts it off the charts, but other planets are okay, more or less.

This is all based on an assumption that interior heat energy somehow drives planetary spin, though we do not understand why it should. So planetary spin is not merely conserved angular momentum, ad infinitum, but actually a function of energy. Can it be so? Maybe... something to look for if variable G and variable E are real. That's what this equation seems to be saying here.

One very easy way to disprove this theory is by working out a similar equation with 'non-variable', universal constant Newton's G. If you get spin results that more closely match observed spin, you're in!
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Old 18-March-2005, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
This is all based on an assumption that interior heat energy somehow drives planetary spin, though we do not understand why it should. So planetary spin is not merely conserved angular momentum, ad infinitum, but actually a function of energy. Can it be so? Maybe...
What is a "planet" in your theory. The nine named planets? Large moons too? Large asteroids? All masses?
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Old 18-March-2005, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
This is all based on an assumption that interior heat energy somehow drives planetary spin, though we do not understand why it should. So planetary spin is not merely conserved angular momentum, ad infinitum, but actually a function of energy. Can it be so? Maybe...
What is a "planet" in your theory. The nine named planets? Large moons too? Large asteroids? All masses?
the nine planets. Haven't done the work on moons, which may be complicated by home planet energy outputs. So don't know moons for now, only nine planets.
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Old 18-March-2005, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
This is all based on an assumption that interior heat energy somehow drives planetary spin, though we do not understand why it should. So planetary spin is not merely conserved angular momentum, ad infinitum, but actually a function of energy. Can it be so? Maybe...
What is a "planet" in your theory. The nine named planets? Large moons too? Large asteroids? All masses?
the nine planets. Haven't done the work on moons, which may be complicated by home planet energy outputs. So don't know moons for now, only nine planets.
I'm not asking if you've done the calculations, I'm asking if you would hypothesize that interior heat energy somehow drives the spin of moons, asteroids, comets, etc.

Or do you hypothesize that it is only the nine planets whose spin is driven by interior heat energy.
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Old 18-March-2005, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
I have given my comments so far in the erratically named 'Potential threat' thread.
Basically, from a mathematical point of view the equation is way too complicated (you don't need PK, for example, and the need for all the constants isn't clear either), and from a logical point of view, you use spin in the equation and you use the result of the equation to calculate spin again.
When I reworked it the way you suggested, rather than PK dropping out, it came out (PK)^2, and got same results, so the original equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR became:

(PK)^2/PE :/: (13.36E-16/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

I'm doing this from memory (notes not with me) but got same results (but not 100% sure I got it right). But this way may be easier to deal with, though results should be the same.
Wait. You have (A/B) / (C * (A/D))
Now, C * (A/D) = (C*A) / D
So you get (A/B) * (D / (C*A))
This is the same as (A*D)/ (B*C*A),
and this is again the same as D / (B*C).
Hey, no longer is there an A!

Can please someone else confirm that I have this basic basic math rules still correct, and if I do, please tell it to Lunatik, because if you get even this wrong, why bother with anything else, and if I get even this wrong, please ignore my criticisms. But this is quite crucial!
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Old 18-March-2005, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
A third criticism, that I haven't posted there: how can your result (spin ratio) for Venus be positive, if one of the elements you are multiplying with is negative? Perhaps you better check the equation and all the calculations, and come back again then...
Venus is off the charts, because of its retro spin, so used it only as a best guess basis for near zero spin, though I confess that is only a rough estimate. The results for Venus puts it off the charts, but other planets are okay, more or less.
That was not my question. Have you calculated the numbers for Venus? If so, how come that you end up with a positive number? You can only get a negative result with the numbers that you give. So your calculation is wrong. What reason do we have to look into the rest of them if you can't even see that, and don't understand how you can simplify your calculation?
Have you made that formula yourself? Do you understand it? Have you checked it in any way?
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Old 18-March-2005, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
I have given my comments so far in the erratically named 'Potential threat' thread.
Basically, from a mathematical point of view the equation is way too complicated (you don't need PK, for example, and the need for all the constants isn't clear either), and from a logical point of view, you use spin in the equation and you use the result of the equation to calculate spin again.
When I reworked it the way you suggested, rather than PK dropping out, it came out (PK)^2, and got same results, so the original equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR became:

(PK)^2/PE :/: (13.36E-16/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

I'm doing this from memory (notes not with me) but got same results (but not 100% sure I got it right). But this way may be easier to deal with, though results should be the same.
Wait. You have (A/B) / (C * (A/D))
Now, C * (A/D) = (C*A) / D
So you get (A/B) * (D / (C*A))
This is the same as (A*D)/ (B*C*A),
and this is again the same as D / (B*C).
Hey, no longer is there an A!

Can please someone else confirm that I have this basic basic math rules still correct, and if I do, please tell it to Lunatik, because if you get even this wrong, why bother with anything else, and if I get even this wrong, please ignore my criticisms. But this is quite crucial!
Fram
The problem here is that Lunatik's equation is tough to decipher based on what he/she typed. More parenthesis (parenthesi??) should have been used to clarify.

This:
(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

is better represented as:
(PK/PE) * (1/C1) * (PK/C2) * (C3/orbit) * (1/spin) * (AU^0.5)
where c1 = 13.36E-16; C2 = 231.7; C3 = 365

As you've pointed out, the use of 3 separate constants is confusing.

Also confusing is the lack of units analysis. By my best guess, the units of this "ratio" are (length^0.5 / time).
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Old 18-March-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
I have given my comments so far in the erratically named 'Potential threat' thread.
Basically, from a mathematical point of view the equation is way too complicated (you don't need PK, for example, and the need for all the constants isn't clear either), and from a logical point of view, you use spin in the equation and you use the result of the equation to calculate spin again.
When I reworked it the way you suggested, rather than PK dropping out, it came out (PK)^2, and got same results, so the original equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR became:

(PK)^2/PE :/: (13.36E-16/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

I'm doing this from memory (notes not with me) but got same results (but not 100% sure I got it right). But this way may be easier to deal with, though results should be the same.
Wait. You have (A/B) / (C * (A/D))
Now, C * (A/D) = (C*A) / D
So you get (A/B) * (D / (C*A))
This is the same as (A*D)/ (B*C*A),
and this is again the same as D / (B*C).
Hey, no longer is there an A!

Can please someone else confirm that I have this basic basic math rules still correct, and if I do, please tell it to Lunatik, because if you get even this wrong, why bother with anything else, and if I get even this wrong, please ignore my criticisms. But this is quite crucial!
Fram
The problem here is that Lunatik's equation is tough to decipher based on what he/she typed. More parenthesis (parenthesi??) should have been used to clarify.

This:
(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

is better represented as:
(PK/PE) * (1/C1) * (PK/C2) * (C3/orbit) * (1/spin) * (AU^0.5)
where c1 = 13.36E-16; C2 = 231.7; C3 = 365

As you've pointed out, the use of 3 separate constants is confusing.

Also confusing is the lack of units analysis. By my best guess, the units of this "ratio" are (length^0.5 / time).
Ah, thanks, that might explain it. I thought his :/: was the 'lower' priority, meaning that you first made the calculations between those, and then the :/: calculations. This was in line with the first element, (PK/PE), which has to be done before the first :/: can be done, as it is included in brackets.

Lunatik, care to write your formulas a bit more clear the next time? The mathematicians use the parentheses for this reason... You use them as well, but not in the right way (putting a constant on its own between brackets is useless, for example). And by using / and :/: indifferently, you only confused me further.

Well, assuming that this is the correct explanation, that only leaves the questions: why use three constants, why use spin in a calculation to calculate spin, and why a positive result for Venus?
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Old 18-March-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
This:
(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

is better represented as:
(PK/PE) * (1/C1) * (PK/C2) * (C3/orbit) * (1/spin) * (AU^0.5)
where c1 = 13.36E-16; C2 = 231.7; C3 = 365
Taking this further,

SR = (PK * PK * C3 * AU^0.5) / (PE * C1 * C2 * orbit * spin)

Lumping some terms together gives:

SR = P * C */ spin
Where P = planetary terms (excluding spin)
Where C = constants

That is
P = PK*PK*AU^0.5 / PE
C = C3 / (C1*C2)

So let's look at lunatik's conclusions. Supposedly it is compelling that if you take earth's spin ratio, divide it by another planet's spin ratio, you obtain the planet's rotational period (within ~15% for 75% of planets)

So, let's let:
SRp = SR for the planet of interest
SRe = SR for earth
Pe = P (my P, above) for Earth
Pp = P for planet of interest
spin-e = Earth's spin (ie, rotation rate)
spin - p = Planet of interest's spin

Then,
SRe = Pe * C * / spin-e
SRp = Pp * C * / spin-p

Again, it is said to be compelling that SRe / SRp is nearly equal to the rotation rate of the planet of interest. Because of this, a link between internal heat and rotation rate is hypothesized. Let's calculate this:

SRe / SRp =? spin -p
(This means "Does SRp / SRp equal spin-p"


substituting for SRe and SRm gives:
(Pe * C * / spin-e) / (Pp * C * / spin-p) =? spin-p

Since spin-E = 1 (by definition --- we're calculating the spin of the relevent planet in earth days), and since you can cancelling the C's and rearrange the left side, you get:
(Pe * spin-p) / (Pp) = spin-p

But spin-p is on both sides of the equation!!!! This means that spin has nothing to do with it.

So, while I cannot (yet) explain why Pe / Pp would be ~1 for any planet, I can at least state conclusively that the hypothesis that spin is related to internal heat is baseless.

(By the way, since all of the terms in Pe and Pp are variations on planet distance, internal temperature, and orbital period, I suspect that there is nothing earth-shattering with regard to why Pe / Pp is ~1 for most planets)

edited once to remove a mean-spirited remark on my part, and a second time to correct spelling
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Old 18-March-2005, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
Wait. You have (A/B) / (C * (A/D))
Now, C * (A/D) = (C*A) / D
So you get (A/B) * (D / (C*A))
This is the same as (A*D)/ (B*C*A),
and this is again the same as D / (B*C).
Hey, no longer is there an A!
I think I can see where the problem is. You think PK is the same everywhere, but it is not. PK, which is Kelvin temp for each planet, is a different value for each planet, so these would have to be PK1, PK2, PK3..., each one a separate value. Taking the equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

As pghnative says, these are ratios, so each parenthesis is a separate value, not necessarily algebraic, so that (PK1/231K) is not same as (PK2/231.7K), if that helps. This was why I had those values in parenthesis, because each one represented a value unique to the planet being calculated for spin, as a ratio of Kelvin to Energy, then 'normalized' for Venus near zero spin and Earth's one day spin. That's why it does not lend itself easily to algebraic equivalents, so using actual numbers makes for easier to understand results: Kelvin, E, spin, orbit in days, are in my original post; see Nasa Planetary link for more data. Then put in on a spread sheet and see what you get.

Addendum: in rereading pghnative's I can see what he's getting at. Like I said before elsewhere, there are some very smart people here! I'l check it over later and get back. Thanks for simplifying it! I'll run some numbers on it to see how it goes.
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Old 18-March-2005, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
This:
(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

is better represented as:
(PK/PE) * (1/C1) * (PK/C2) * (C3/orbit) * (1/spin) * (AU^0.5)
where c1 = 13.36E-16; C2 = 231.7; C3 = 365
Taking this further,

SR = (PK * PK * C3 * AU^0.5) / (PE * C1 * C2 * orbit * spin)

Lumping some terms together gives:

SR = P * C */ spin
Where P = planetary terms (excluding spin)
Where C = constants
--italics mine

Hmm, looks like you left out 'orbit', which is a variable.

This should be: SR = P * C/ spin * orbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
That is
P = PK*PK*AU^0.5 / PE
C = C3 / (C1*C2)
Should be: P = PK*PK*AU^0.5 / PE*orbit*spin

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
So let's look at lunatik's conclusions. Supposedly it is compelling that if you take earth's spin ratio, divide it by another planet's spin ratio, you obtain the planet's rotational period (within ~15% for 75% of planets)

So, let's let:
SRp = SR for the planet of interest
SRe = SR for earth
Pe = P (my P, above) for Earth
Pp = P for planet of interest
spin-e = Earth's spin (ie, rotation rate)
spin - p = Planet of interest's spin

Then,
SRe = Pe * C * / spin-e
SRp = Pp * C * / spin-p

Again, it is said to be compelling that SRe / SRp is nearly equal to the rotation rate of the planet of interest. Because of this, a link between internal heat and rotation rate is hypothesized. Let's calculate this:

SRe / SRp =? spin -p
(This means "Does SRp / SRp equal spin-p"


substituting for SRe and SRm gives:
(Pe * C * / spin-e) / (Pp * C * / spin-p) =? spin-p
--italics mine

So far so good, except for missing 'orbit' and a minor typo, SRp (as SRm).
However, SRe / SRp =? spin-p may not be totally correct. Why did you drop out the spin-e?

It should read as:

SRe/ SRp =? spin-e/ spin-p

which gives us: (Pe*C/ spin-e) / (Pp*C/ spin-p) =? spin-e/ spin-p

if I follow what you are doing correctly. Of course both sides will have spin in them, since they are ratios of spin. Remember SR is only a number showing the relationship of PK/ PE, for all the planets, Earth included, where it is = 2.32. When you take this 2.32 for Earth and divided it by itself, you get spin of one day. For all the other planets, it is different, which results in approx. their spin (in Earth days).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
Since spin-E = 1 (by definition --- we're calculating the spin of the relevent planet in earth days), and since you can cancelling the C's and rearrange the left side, you get:
(Pe * spin-p) / (Pp) = spin-p
That no longer applies. It should now read, if spin-E =m 1, as:

(Pe * spin-p) / (Pp) = 1/ spin-p, where the spin-p cancels into:

Pe/ Pp = 1. Is this what you were trying to say?

The real equation is ..[DELETED]

That's what I think this Planetary Spin Ratio equations says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghnative
But spin-p is on both sides of the equation!!!! This means that spin has nothing to do with it.

So, while I cannot (yet) explain why Pe / Pp would be ~1 for any planet, I can at least state conclusively that the hypothesis that spin is related to internal heat is baseless.

(By the way, since all of the terms in Pe and Pp are variations on planet distance, internal temperature, and orbital period, I suspect that there is nothing earth-shattering with regard to why Pe / Pp is ~1 for most planets)
[/quote]
Actually, spin-e and spin-b are on both sides of the equation, why wouldn't they be? If I knew why you dropped out 'orbit' and later 'spin-e', I might better understand your conclusion. Still looking at it...

It's the variables that runs the results, not the constants which are there only to 'normalize' for Venus 'zero' spin and Earth's one day spin. That's why I fall back upon using actual numbers, because otherwise it is easily confusing. Have not yet had chance to work on your new simplified version, but will check it out futher. Thanks.

{Edited for delete of: SRe/ SRp = 1/ spin-p, which is wrong, and spell.]
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Old 19-March-2005, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fram
Wait. You have (A/B) / (C * (A/D))
Now, C * (A/D) = (C*A) / D
So you get (A/B) * (D / (C*A))
This is the same as (A*D)/ (B*C*A),
and this is again the same as D / (B*C).
Hey, no longer is there an A!
I think I can see where the problem is. You think PK is the same everywhere, but it is not. PK, which is Kelvin temp for each planet, is a different value for each planet, so these would have to be PK1, PK2, PK3..., each one a separate value. Taking the equation:

(PK/PE) :/: (13.36E-16) x (PK/231.7K) :/: (planetary orbit/365) :/: (planet spin) x (AU)^1/2 = SR

As pghnative says, these are ratios, so each parenthesis is a separate value, not necessarily algebraic, so that (PK1/231K) is not same as (PK2/231.7K), if that helps. This was why I had those values in parenthesis, because each one represented a value unique to the planet being calculated for spin, as a ratio of Kelvin to Energy, then 'normalized' for Venus near zero spin and Earth's one day spin. That's why it does not lend itself easily to algebraic equivalents, so using actual numbers makes for easier to understand results: Kelvin, E, spin, orbit in days, are in my original post; see Nasa Planetary link for more data. Then put in on a spread sheet and see what you get.

Addendum: in rereading pghnative's I can see what he's getting at. Like I said before elsewhere, there are some very smart people here! I'l check it over later and get back. Thanks for simplifying it! I'll run some numbers on it to see how it goes.
I think pghnative has explained my mistake quite good, but your explanation makes no sense to me. Are you seriously saying that in one equation where you use twice PK, it doesn't have twice the same value?
That is what you are saying, but I seriously hope that is not true.
I know PK is not a constant, and that was not what I said. The way I interpreted your equation, due to the very confusing way you had written it down, gave the result that you could just take out PK as you ended up with PK / PK, which is 1.
As pghnative pointed out, that probably was not your intention. But your explanation here is quite ridiculous.
I'll sit back for a while and see how you and pghnative make sense of this equation, because we clearly have problems understanding