What if the universe and its matter and energy was contained in a finite space and that this space does not grow or shrink. For example a huge cube and in the middle of it is where the big bang originated from. If this were true wouldn't it be possible that in a finite space with finite energy and matter interchanging bouncing around with stars exploding imploding excreting energy engulfing planets recreating dust etc etc... That everything would find its way into the exact same coposition in infinite time... meaning that our molecules were arranged in the same order an infinite amount of times and displaced an infinite amount of times?
Then when there is an unbalacing of matter such as too many black holes absorbing to much matter and energy that they all gradually pull itself back together into a massive ball of matter and energy and explode again over and over being infinite big bangs.

I am aware of an horizon of a blackhole and not having any more gravitational pull than a normal star outside of this horizon but the constant gradual pull could combine everything in infinite time if the expanding stops because it hits the theoretical walls of the cube or sphere.

I'm not sure what you're asking after I tried to reconcile these two statements.

and

So is the space static or expanding?

And there is a posibility that space is finite. But no greater a chance than it's infinite...

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Feynman
>~~~~<
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.

Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.

Your concept is accepted (with a few changes of terms) by some cosmologists. The big exception would be the concept of 'space'. Matter and energy don't expand 'into' space (your cube) but create space and time. The word 'infinity' means all types of things but many see a 'finite' universe and 'infinite time' as a contradiction. A universe that stops expanding ceases to create it's own time and space and therefore is not 'infinite'.

One argument against an 'exact' replay of expansion and contraction is that the universe does not appear uniform. All particles are not equal distant from eachother so how could uneveness of energy and matter exist in a universe that repeats itself.

I meant it for the matter expanding outward inside of the cube not hitting the so called wall yet.

And the last statement got me giggling because that idea hit me as I was reading what I typed. when we could have existed infinite times and not existed infinite times.

Also could it be possible there were numerous big bangs but spread so far a part that we have not be able to detect these other universes yet? And if there were many other big bangs that initiated with the same amount of energy matter and empty space and placement wouldnt they end up the exact same as ours?

Yes, in fact I would consider that highly likely. But its so utterly unmeasurable that we will never know.

Not necessarily. There might be different amount of matter vs antimatter, antimatter might even dominate! There might be different amount of spatial dimensions, some natural constants might be different... As could then some very basic laws of physics. All in all, they might be wonderful universes but we will never know!

__________________
I have many of 'em mental powers

Ones where the moons are made of cheese!!!!! Possibly....maybe.....hopefully!

8) My friend, dont listen to any of those big bang theorists,.. they will only confuse you..

If you have questions, then ask me.

First.. the universe is finite. it has to be...
but all that nonsense about exploding this and condensing that.. nonsense. don't get me wrong.. its not their fault, but its wrong.
its wrong and they all know it..
there is a solution.. its called a natural progressive pattern.
its so simple to visualise and precieve, yet has thus far, proven excedinly difficult to quantify and rationalise into any worthwhile eqautions.
since we are talking about a transindental fluid which condesends to obey surtain natural laws, ... laws set forth by the quality of the applied energy in creation.. and it was these same qualities which literally predestined the formation of all space and matter, generally, by setting a number of universal constants and relationships, which are constant and threw-out all of space... namely.. qualities which would result in what we know of as Pi,.. namely the relationship between a circles diameter to its circumfrance.... i.e.. what is a circle, which is fundamental to all the laws of motion of objects in this aparently 3D spacial enviorment.
this proposal also serves to make time precievable as the left over 2 way motion of the 4Th dimensional rise, which also formed the fundamental particle... nuetral spatial tension. (nuetral to e- .... anyway).
this paticle as a result of that same qualitive energy is energized by forces at ever transcending angles, resulting in what amounts to higher dimensional levels of motion by the 7Th, which is proposed to be the last inward vector of the second circle rise pattern, which is inward, and caused the developed energy... massive energy... threw out space to curve inward apon itself literally and manifest into an orginal mass at the center of space.. which then exploded.. but not as a big bang..
but as the 8Th dimension.. in what maybe upto 28.
what i illustrate here is a consideration for up to 16, including zero.


-MT

Hi Mosheh

I'm not that well adversed in physics so don't get me wrong, this is a serious question. It's a genuine attempt to understand something, for me utterly foreign, I don't have a clue about what you've been proposing earlier and I'm not even shure if your on the ATM or MT side [I'm leaning towards the ATM side though].
So on to the question: Are you serious?

You left me at:
English is not my mother language, so I looked up the word "transindental" in my swe-eng-swe dictionary: No match.
I googled for "transindental": 767 hits, most where from meditation related web pages. Couldn't find any physics related
I googled for "natural progressive pattern": No matches???.
What laws are surtain?

What does that mean in this case, laymans term?

So something happened that caused the universe, as we know it, to exist?


Why is the value of pi fundemental to all motion, and why is the 3D space only apparent?

What proposal makes time noticable as what? over what? motion of what? rise?

Googled for "neutral spatial tension": 2 hits both in favor for a "no big bang" universe [did not understand them though]
Googled for "fundamental particle": 26500 hits, one of them describing it as: I've been reading some popular science books. According to them, the quark, is the constituent to all matter [besides what comes out of string theory] Is the "nuetral spatial tension" equivalent to the quark?

Now Im making an assumption [and revealing my ignorance, as if this is something new 8-[ ]: 3 quarks makes up a proton, neutron, whatever, right? So 1 quark can't have a neutral charge, right? So your not talking about an equivalent to the quark, right ? So what are you talking about?

I'll end my session of questiones here untill later

Regards / A confused Arena

Btw, don't reference to your appended multi dimensional picture without a thourough tutorial, I don't understand It.

The universe is finite but boundless.

a threedimensional version of the surface of a ball.

I thought that it was saddle shaped and infinite

no, that's a pringle. 8-[

[edit]although pringles arn't infinite, they will make you pretty fat.[/edit]

ummm... yes.
that is correct, so did i... yet, one thing that most people are not aware of is that the english language has suffered changes over the past 200 years... words which were once common, are now long forgotten.

Transindental, for example, i assume refers to transforming indentity, while transcendental refers to much more metaphysical things.

it is no longer a word, but i use it as a direct quote from the great master, Nikola Tesla, and if the word was good enough for him, then its good enough for me... even if i have to coin it...


I.e.. the fluid, the ether, will by its nature comply with the will of the energy applied.. like clay... it will form into whatever shape the applier of work wants.... it condesends to obey.
thus i propose, that in fact it was only the specific qualities of the applied energy that resulted in our universe as we know it.


that is the basis of all my arguements.. applied energy from an outside source. that energy having specific qualities.


It would be a long discussion, but let me simply express that Pi, is a constant... what is a circle here, is a circle everywhere in our universe, and all motion in space is governed by the nature of space, where in Pi, is clearly representative of one of these aspects.






A quark is not known to be an actual thing, first of all.

and no... nuetral spatial tension would not be the same as quarks.

an electrostatic field, is an example of SPATIAL TENSION, but that is polar, and has pos and neg polarities...

whle the fundamental particle does not... Neutral spatial tension.

study the drawings.
-MT

Oy, you ever going to remember how to spell "pi"?

(Transindental fluid, ether, and an all-important pie... I don't get it. Looks like a pie in the sky to me.)

MT, you have really brightened my otherwise weary day.

hillarious.

Your source for this statement? The observed jets from high energy physics experiments would not appear without quarks being real. Your refutation of these experiments is where?

I have, they are just two more examples of useless drawings and meaningless words.

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Didn't the Michelson-Morley experiment disapprove the Ether?


So when the universe went from 3D to 4D, time began and the neutral spatial tension was created?

one experiment cannot prove or disprove the ether.

for to do so, you would need a means of testing for space, or atleast the means to effect space itself, which no one knows how to do.. sorry.

Arena..
yes, basically.. the application of energy would have taken place over time, but it is not our time... it would be time as it is found in the Plane of existance outside our spatial universe.
time as we know it, here in this space, is a function of the 4Th dimension.

as is well considered.. but has anyone ever explained to you what it is, and how it works, and why? i believe i can do that.




please, see the image, and ask specific questions, about any sentence which needs elaborating on.

-MT

So Mosheh, are you "confused" by the thoughtful answers you have recieved on this board??? Otherwise, why would you give such "advice".

bolding mine...

So, the posters here who have demonstrated that the BB theory is an accurate description of reality are "purposefully" being less than truthful??? Is that what you're saying???

I'll say! Your "natural progessive pattern" argument is just so much handwaving...and obviously so.

Who is this "we" you mentioned. Fact is, you're the only one on this board who has ever made mention of this non-existant transindental fluid.

If you have a problem with the BB theory then you should make an effort to demonstrate just how it is wrong. Saying "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" without providing any evidence that you are right just doesn't "cut it" here...and you know that.