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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 29-November-2004, 04:03 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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Now people. I have been attacked by the less imaginative for not backing this up with a boat load of mathematics that no one can understand.......well it's time to break out the quote box for these fellows.

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
~Albert Einstien

Now then I have made a web page to save my fingers and so I could include diagrams.
This is the link to my theory.....

www.terra-prtl.com/CubansTheory.html

Cuban_ is a game alias I have......I found someone who was interested in it today so I decided to put it on the web for him. Then I thought heck why not let everyone criticise me. I can't wait till I have all the info there but this is a dang good start.
Contact information is at the bottom of the page.

Please tell me what you think....but be gentle, this is my baby. I don't wanna see it make its way to the trash can.....
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Old 29-November-2004, 04:48 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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I can't help but notice no one is posting anything.............give me something to feed on people I'm freakin hungry!! Even a your stupid would appease me, or that makes no sense........come on......anything.....
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Old 29-November-2004, 05:33 AM
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Give it a day or two Andrew. I'm not sure where you are from but it is the middle of the night in the western hemisphere and middle of the workday elsewhere. I'm sure you'll hear something. Just be patient! It may take several days for our members form around the world to check in.
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Old 29-November-2004, 08:25 AM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi Andrew,
Firstly welcome to UT! Secondly, that's a great way to get strarted here.
I've just printed out your home page and will study it carefully. Be warned though, many of the members on UT are very astute and will pick you up on a lot of tiny details. This may be at times a bit soul destroying but then that's why you post your alternative theories; to see if they stand up to hard scrutiny.
I'll get back to you with some thoughts on your work and I'm sure there will be a lively discussion if the right peole get interested in what you have to say.
As Tinaa said you will have to wait until your work gets digested enough for people to formulate opinions, suggestions and criticisms of it.
Cheers
Ferg.
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Old 29-November-2004, 10:31 AM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi again Andrew,
I'm sitting with you work printed out in front of me, so I'm busking this a bit as I go along.

Firstly, it's often a good idea to clarify terms that you are going to use, as you have done. There is a problem however if you modify these meanings and it is better to expand the word to a phrase of your own making to express the facet of it you wish to emphasise. How about "irreversable temporal reality" instead of "event horizon" which has a definite meaning already and will only serve to confuse readers who are familiar with it's current use as regards black holes.

Secondly, you have to be careful about making assumptions. It is some times very difficult to know that you are making an assumption because you have a "cutoff point" in your self criticism. I mean that you follow logically a certain argument to a point that you are satisfied that the material out of which it is constructed is first principal. The idea that time moves inexorably forward at a constant rate is perhaps for you a first principal but there are many physicists who have a different opinion. There is the possibility that they are wrong but you must also give them the chance that they might be right. This is related to the gerneral theory of relativity and although completely geometrical (i.e. a mathematical concept) there is experimental evidence to support it. There are other concepts of time as three dimensional and parallel to our three spacial dimensions but this has more to do with theosophy than physics.
Thirdly, why do you consider the past to be unchangable? The past is as infinite as the future and if we have only a finite knowledge of one dimention of the past then you should expand on this and restrict your theory to a limited uni-dimensional past. The possibilities of the alternative pasts effecting our present is of course limited to how much dimensional access we have to a multi-dimensional past. It is part of certain eastern mystic teachings that we can be reincarnated and most of them, as you do see time in a forward moving single dimension. If it was possible however to be reincarnated into the past would this not have an effect on our present? The answer is no. Becuse this would neccessitate a duality of a singular dimension, this duality (or multipicity) is realy the justification for believing that there is an infinite amout of parallel "time" to our own.
Fourthly, manifesting the future with our dreams can be a dangerous game, and would lead to all kinds of criminal activity if it were at all possible. The future is a causal result of the past and present having "temporal inertia". Time as perceived by human senses is rather like peering into a hose and trying to see the garden. Everything is in motion in the time continuum and looking into the hose only gives us the impression that time is moving in one direction at a constant speed. If we could put down the hose and look around we could see all events of past future and present possibilities and impossibilities at once. now wouldn't that be mind blowing?
I'm going to have a good think about this stuff and get back to you
Keep writing Andrew and don't get fussed about finding the right terms. Try your best to describe what you mean even if it takes a long time. It's much clearer in the long run for the reader.
Cheers
And Happy Saint Andrews day tomorrow!
Ferg
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Old 29-November-2004, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew@Nov 29 2004, 05:48 AM
I can't help but notice no one is posting anything
I'll give it time later. I am currently pretty busy. At first glance, I am wondering if there is anything unusual that this theory predicts that we might be able to search for and measure. The super-fast skim I gave it didn't indicate anything like that.

BTW, unlike ferg.c [who I often agree with], I'm OK with the past being written in stone [possible exempting some short-term quantum effects].
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Old 30-November-2004, 08:09 AM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi again Andrew,
There are a lot of alt. theories out there about time and a lot of them are quite loopy. In general when constructing a new theory about something as fundamental as time is a good idea to have a look at what is already circulating and how it got there. The concept of time has indeed changed radically several times during history. There are philosophical dissertations on the nature of time and mathematical and scientific conjectures as to what it really is and how it relates to other physical phenomena. This last qualification of time (how it relates to other observable physical phenomena) is the most important part of any work on the analysis of time because without a relationship to other phenomena it is impossible to convey any meaning in your work. We can only know "new" information in terms of other information that we already know. I know that 2+2=4 because I already know that 1+1=2, and I know what 1 is from my experience of unity and uniqueness the way certain things, which have no plurality, always appear to me. This is how knowledge is built.
So how does time interact with other observable physical phenomena?
The example most often quoted by physicists is gravity with regard to the General theory of relativity, but this is almost entirely a geometrical concept and as humans we have very little if any sensation of it at all. As far as we are concerned Newtonian mechanical principals are enough to describe almost all our sensations of reality. Only at enormous speeds and on absolutely tiny scales do the laws of the theory of relativity come into their own realm. So I will start by looking at how time is related to the human scale of time and how certain concepts are related to constructs of time as we experience it.
Firstly, As you quite rightly say, time passes in a single direction which seems irreversible. This is obvious if we look at how I spill my coffee. I cannot imagine the coffee jumping back into the cup from which it just poured. This is an indication of the direction of time. But how is this described in scientific terms? The word "entropy" describes the amount of chaos in a particular system. If I consider the coffee in the cup as an ordered system and the spilled coffee as disordered, then I can say that I can imagine an ordered system proceeding to a disordered system but not the reverse. I can say from this that entropy is always increasing, that is to say things are becoming more chaotic. If things become less chaotic (under their own control) with the passage of time, then it follows that the time line of the system is in reverse. This my sound rather paradoxical and anyone could see that if I made the coffee from water, grounds, heat and kinetic energy, (and a spot of milk) that I was still going "forward" in time. In reality however I have only delayed the end of time by as long as it took me to make the coffee. (joke: If you make instant coffee in the microwave do you you go backwards in time?). But in order to make the ordered coffee I have to create chaos else where and the total amount of chaos in the universe is always increasing.
There is conjecture as to whether time will go into reverse if the universe starts to collapse instead of expanding forever. The trouble with this is that our concept of time would also be reversed and thus we would have no way of telling. We would remember the future but that would be our past! Physicists have attributed to time a direction which is denoted by an arrow (the arrow of time) and it has been speculated that all matter will follow this arrow if reversed. There are almost no exceptions to this. If you want to look around the web for mention of Massive Vector Bozons you'll see quite a stringent debate on this subject.
Secondly, there is a psychological inference of time. Aging and the birth/death cycle are really the domain of other forums but for completeness I'll have to touch on them here. Aging has always been considered irreversible and the search for the fountain of youth is accompanied by about as much literature as any other pseudo-occult quest. However recent medical research has found that each cell in our body is "born" with a built-in clock. This counts down and reaching zero proceeds to self destruct. One of the aims of modern medicine is to isolate this clock and find a way to slow it down. There is great hope for those suffering from Alzheimer's disease and other memory and aging disorders.
The cycle of life has many interpretations. The Buddhist wheel of life sees us as mere vessels for souls which are indestructible unlike the body, and the aim of the soul is to return to its creator through a cycle of successive reincarnations. The Buddhists conceive of a single dimensional time which moves forward and reincarnations always come at the time of death of one body and the birth of another. Peter Ouspensky considers time to be a completely accessible three dimensional domain an thus envisages reincarnation as having the possibility of going "backwards" in time. This enables the soul to correct and improve its own conditions for return to the creator which he sees as a complete temporal regression reaching back to the beginning of time. This has a modern counterpart in cosmology, namely the "big crunch" which is the recompressing of all the matter in the universe as would occur if universal expansion were to stop and go into reverse. These cycles of birth and death, which ever direction you think of them as acting, are human manifestations of the passing of time as we sense it.
The next consideration of time as conceived, rather than sensed by humans is that of time with regard to speed and gravity. This is the subject of the theory of relativity which you can find described in many books and web-sites dedicated to modern physics. Basically, time is described as not being universal, but as relative to the observer. The time I measure as I travel is different from the time you measure while you wait for me to return. This is related to both the speed at which I travel and the proximity to powerful gravitational fields. The main feature of these theories is the inclusion of a certain constant in the calculations relating to time. This constant is huge number which happens to be the speed of light in a vacuum. Why this? Well, It's a bit difficult to accept but this is one of the few times that man has actually put a number on infinity (another is Plank's constant, and this dependance on absolute instead of arbitrary measurements helps make quantum mechanics to some extent indestructable in the same way as relativity seems to be).
If infinity is described as a quantity beyond which there is no concept of extension then the speed of light fulfills this requirement and is a "hands on" example of infinity. In the same way that we can't say that infinity plus one is bigger than infinity we cannot say that the speed of light plus 10 Km/h is faster than the speed of light. The theory of relativity explains that two objects traveling towards each other at 90% the speed of light actually have a closing speed of just the speed of light and not 180% the speed of light. Time has to take into account this paradoxical phenomena by slowing down at high speeds. Thus a clock in a spaceship traveling at 50% the speed of light will run slowly in relation to a clock traveling at a slower speed. If NASA synchronized two clocks and put one in this spaceship and then sent this ship away from earth to travels about for a while, on its return the clocks would be out of sync with the one on the ship being the slower of the two. On board the ship as it travels however there is no sensation of slowing down because the slowing is only relative to the other clock. That is why Einstein says that time is unique for every system. The other Phenomena which effects time according to the theory of relativity is gravity. It is stated that as a body experiences an increase in gravitational force it also displays a slowing of time relative to an observer not experiencing the gravitational force. That is to say, falling into a black hole you would not notice a slowing of time but watching someone else falling into a black hole you would see them slowing down to almost a stop. (They would see themselves moving along as normal). This is tough stuff to get you head round all at once so don't go nuts. Read carefully and slowly and you'll be fine. I'm sure I've made a few slip ups so there will be a whole bunch of posts correcting my exposition, but they are just as useful as the ones that relate directly to your subject.
Any idea of how reality is created always leads to heavy philosophical debate by virtue of the completely objective nature of our concept of it. I'll get another post up about reality later but for now get you teeth into the "time" aspect of your work.
Cheers
Ferg.
Oh! And get yourself a spell checker and stop apologizing, just theory! If it's right it's right and if it's not, well it's not!

PS keep us informed of your opinions about our reactions.
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Old 30-November-2004, 02:54 PM
Mild mannered Mild mannered is offline
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Hi Andrew

Not sure you'll get far with this one mate - but good luck.

Quote:
Now people. I have been attacked by the less imaginative for not backing this up with a boat load of mathematics that no one can understand
I have little or no maths so I'm not one of them - just a layman and these are just my opinions.

Quote:
Please tell me what you think....but be gentle, this is my baby. I don't wanna see it make its way to the trash can.....
Ok...gentle it is. I can relate to that

Just a few minor points from what you put on your site.

Quote:
Once something has been animated it cannot be taken back....
Quite true if you mean that energy cannot be destroyed - only changed - this is a basic principle as I understand it.

Quote:
So tell me, do you exist before RIGHT NOW!? I don't know either
A fair philosophical question I'll leave you to thrash out with Ferg. Can I prove it? Certainly not. Though I see enough cause and effect in the universe that has brought me to this point to satisfy me that we are here now only because of the billions of years that have proceeded this instant - including the last few where the computer I'm typing this on was created.

Quote:
Every instant is an event horizon.
Have you read a book by an English alternate physisist (Barber I think)called "The End Of Time?"
In it he dismisses the idea of the arrow of time and says there is only the now - or a series of instants which not only can we not move beyond - but rather that that is a meaningless thought. Time for him does not flow - we just occupy a series of instants and each one is unique and only appear connected. Time is an illusion is his point - if I remember correctly - but it is some time since I read this book.

Quote:
Spinning causes gravity
?
No it doesn't - I feel quite sure about this - ask Ferg or Anton about centrifugal or centripetal forces - Gravity is a product of mass.

Best advice is the one I've had - read a lot of posts and go back through the archives - there a lot of seemingly new ideas are already covered and it saves time.

Having said that don't be afraid to post either - this is alternative theories after all.

Sorry if I can't encourage your theory but I really can't - your opened minded questioning approach however is great - keeping asking and reading. B)

Mild (just a layman who reads a bit)
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Old 01-December-2004, 02:27 PM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi Mild,
Good to have you along on this one. Most of what you pointed out is quite correct. I would hestitate to say unequivocally that Gravity is caused by mass, though.
Mass definitely has a lot to do with the phenomena but as to it's actual cause, that's a bit to much credit for mass. I think Andrew is going to have a lot of things cleared up in this forum and, as he says himself, this is his first work and he's got a good open-minded attitude. There's a whole load of other pertainent stuff to do with reality and perception that we're going to get into so keep popping in, your contibutions are always helpful and welcome, you layman. (ha ha!)
Cheers
Ferg
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Old 01-December-2004, 02:52 PM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Quote:

Quote:
So tell me, do you exist before RIGHT NOW!? I don't know either
A fair philosophical question I'll leave you to thrash out with Ferg. Can I prove it? Certainly not. Though I see enough cause and effect in the universe that has brought me to this point to satisfy me that we are here now only because of the billions of years that have proceeded this instant - including the last few where the computer I'm typing this on was created.
Actually I can prove that I existed five minutes ago quite easily. I made a cup of coffee five minutes ago. ( I do drink a lot of coffee, don't I? Actually I spill most of it here on UT!) This coffee beside me where did it come from? Well it could be a coincidence of consecutive "nows" but I think I probably made it a bout five minutes ago. If this is "proof" or not is a moot point but let's say it is, then I could extrapolate the entire universe from the causal sequence of events since the big bang (if there was such a thing). The margin of error allways has Heisenberg lurking near by!
Cheers
Ferg
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Old 01-December-2004, 10:50 PM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ferg.c.@Nov 30 2004, 09:09 AM
If NASA synchronized two clocks and put one in this spaceship and then sent this ship away from earth to travels about for a while, on its return the clocks would be out of sync with the one on the ship being the slower of the two.
They actually did this with a pair of ceasium clocks and guess what? It worked like Uncle Albert said it would!
Cheers
Ferg
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Old 02-December-2004, 04:58 PM
Mild mannered Mild mannered is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ferg.c.@Dec 1 2004, 03:27 PM
I would hestitate to say unequivocally that Gravity is caused by mass
You are correct of course - though the two phenomena are inextricably linked (mass/gravity) - so much is still unknown.

I should have stated more clearly that this is the way we calculate gravity at present and this is correct to a very fine amount. From my Layman's point of view. - there are more relativistic points to be looked at to precise - including spin as any motion creates energy and it is the total energy that dictates the mass in a ystem and hence the gravity. If the spin is increasing it is acceleration and adds to the gravity - I'm not sure about constant rates of spin though.

Anyone?
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Old 04-December-2004, 05:45 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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Sorry for being away guys. I thought I was getting e-mailed everytime this got responded too. I may have never come back had this one guy sent me an e-mail.
Alright I'm gonna go thru the replies one by one.

Ferg
"irreversable temporal reality" Heh would never had known about that word/group of words. Already I'm learning being fed. This one too "theosophy". Hmm OK never thought of the past as infinite. This is obvious yes.....but I....hmm...I still feel it cannot be changed....the earth was formed and now its here. I could obliterate it, but its still here. Yes I just recently(last week) learned a little on re-incarnation.....very interesting stuff about being remade in the past......and stuff about existing in all deminsions of time at all moments, my current ego affecting my reincarnated.....yes very wild stuff...whoops there's another one "temporal inertia"......I will get on these terms shortly...
Heh yeah but I am trying to trap a few readers for right now......I need an audience before I take the stage? Hopefully I don't fall and break my leg. =0

Anton
No I don't think any of it is measurable.....just percievable.

Ferg
Hahah nifty...makes things like Ying/Yang and every society had a zero pop into my head....no clue why......Yeah I ran into some Newton stuff two weeks ago on the web.....I unfortunately lack teachings about the great minds of our times. Lets see what you have to say next. "entropy" this back country hic needs a BIGGER dictionary for you guys.........hopefully next time I come prepared.....o crap are we heading to chaos stuff here........yep.......(lol)...so then, you kinda agree with me that the future is going "towards" us? or did you totally lose me there? I am picturing to balls OO that meet in the middle going clock wise and counter clock wise.....Heh I feel lost lemme read some more. "Massive Vector Bozons" will do. O man that was the first part lol......lemme get a drink....your not about to tell me if I go the speed of light I will stop aging are you.....good show.....O wait here we go...That needs something about boring things go slower than fun things in it..........time is Perception, not measuring......possibly describable.......I don't wanna measure it....I want to understand it......I'm sorry but I totally disagree with that whole thing.....maybe I don't know enough about it yet......I'm sure you will let me know =)....BAH!(no offense i appreciate it, I actually wanted someone to argue this with:now I'm just gonna have to form my arguement) but for now.....I dislike that theory.....and I will argue about it tomorrow once i get some sleep and so I don't make an *** of myself......

Mild Mannered
Yep tis what I meant.....thought I put that in there......since people are actually reading it....I'll attempt to get the rest of me stuff on there tomorrow...Hahah trash it out we shall.....interesting book, I may have to dig out the library card tomorrow.....You guys SUCK makin me read and what not...heheheh......just plyin...Not sure about the whole gravity thing.....it just fit there, so I put it there =)

Ferg
"unequivocally"......I hate your big words.......Yeah tomorrow I will return, maybe even be here all day to slug it out with you guys........

Who is this Hiesenburg guy lurking in my bushes! Good point with the coffee......I want to argue with it so bad though........

Yeah I almost allowed myself to read about that..(saw it on the web a while back)...I think its my most stubborn area....I'm gonna have to though i guess......

Mild
Weeeeeeeeee, I just realized I know little about gravity.........I'll get on that too.

Alright then all caught up! Let the games begin! I am going to sleep see you guys tomorrow.

(Gonna find me a kick butt quote for this)
Andrew aka Cuban_CiGaR
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Old 04-December-2004, 05:58 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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OK wow it got thru.........thats messed up........maybe I should try to understand computers first! My netscape crashed after I hit the add reply and then I got a bunch of timed out messages......

Andrew
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Old 05-December-2004, 01:27 PM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi Andrew,
have a look here! for an intersting angle on the time thing.
Cheers
Ferg
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Old 05-December-2004, 02:08 PM
ferg.c. ferg.c. is offline
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Hi again Andrew,
I have to admit you're right about my vocabulary. I'll keep it down a bit. Anyway, stand your ground and defend your baby! Tell me why you want to dispute the coffee thing and give it your best shot! Get your hand dirty!
I gave quite some thought to your theory and the most important feature of it seems to be that once time has gone by, any point in the past is written in stone. This is not really a new concept, it's how most of us think of the past anyhow. My real point with the coffee actually supports your theory and even shows a method of proving it, albeit rather shoddily.
But as Anton points out, a theory has to be able to predict results from future experiments to have any significance. So lets try this:
You decide to do something and plan it down to the last detail. Then when you set out to do it the phone rings and it's your mate who wants to go to the pub. everthing gets shelved and the time half of the zipper doesn't find its reality half. What went wrong? We can't repeat the experiment because we can't go back and re-run time over again having told our mate not to call! You work it out.

And also the sun is never in the centre of the eliptical orbit, it's at one of the focii. (see more Newton and Kepler)
Cheers
Ferg
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Old 08-December-2004, 06:55 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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Hahah......I hit the wrong thing and ended up in a totally different place........what ever it was, was quiet interesting stuff.....ok now that I am in the right place lemme reply....Heh I wanted to argue with it because of how you put it.....but I couldn't so I left it alone.

Hmmmm, I fail to see how this goes my theory.....Least I don't think so. I will make its'(my theory) direction more clear hopefully. What I can say now is that it started because I had some dreams come true. Exactly to the letter. Just, I have been lost in thought the last 9 months....as there is much to think about. I don't really want to get into the Cavitating stuff I read earlier, but I think that I'm going to have to get that assuming.....and more.

Lemme try to work with your homework you gave me.

I like to drink, that's what went wrong.

Let us say you have a dream tonight and by some miraculous event you write it down(for proof your not imagining that you had it in the future). 6 months from now, you start getting a dejavoo feeling.....and then an overwhelming I have done this before feeling. So you go home that night and check your dream notes. Behold there it is....what you just did before you got dejavoo, written down letter for letter. The curious thing is once you became conscience about it(6 months later)......no more details are written down from the dream(6 months ago)......it (the dream) ended or least the words did before you became conscience about it in the future. Hmmm I hope I didnt lose you just there.

Anyhow, how in the world......did you percieve the future.....in the past...My first mind blowing experience with this....was,
I had a dream at 15 that I was working at Pizza Hut, I was at a table with people I knew of at the time, but didnt hang out with them, it was almost time to get off work, we where all sitting around bs'ing like friends do, talkin bout how much we made off tables, how there was so much business, etc.
Well this is a time(when I had the dream) that I was in my, I guess rebellious ways; and swore up and down I would NEVER work at a restaraunt and most definately would NOT wait on people. I even had a near arguement with my foods teacher (Mrs Carrol), she was saying "Andy someday your gonna need to know these things, you never know you may end up working in food services"(it was sanitation stuff we where learning)..I told her factory work was for me...Blah bla blah. She had the most monotonous voice you ever heard. Great lady though. Now then 2 years later(the dream was long forgotten along with the arguement with Mrs Carrol etc) I joined a class I needed to graduate, it was called co-op; you had to have a job the year before you took it so I got a job at 3Z Printing(you know those lil cards in magazines, I stacked those by the thousands).......Well summer passed I had a girlfriend....job went bye bye. November came along and I was gonna have to drop the class with out a job. So......I ended up at Pizza Hut as it was the only place hiring. I got my job as a cook/waitor....supposed to be cooking mostly and waiting only when they where really busy...long story shorter.....next thing I know my dream was true......I was sitting around a table........the main wait for the night......bla blah bla...

Alright then! Weeeeeeee story time is finally over.....my poor fingers.....That is the stuff I am looking for.........HOW? How in the freaking world........did I get to point B. while still at point A. and then travel all the way to B. for "real"......all this physics stuff just came along with my assumptions.........as you can see I know very little about the accepted stuff......all I really have are the assumptions I've made and a few bad definitions.......and a lot of stuff I have to look up from you guys :blink:

I will be hear most of the day tomorrow weather being crappy.......weather good, Andy goes outside......

"Cheers to the 'Scribes' of tomorrow"
Andrew
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Old 09-December-2004, 08:31 AM
imported_Andrew imported_Andrew is offline
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