http://www.lunarrealty.co.nz/

Oh joy!!

Yep. A related story popped up here a few days ago.

What a scam. I can't see any reason whatsoever why anyone would honor this guy's claims to the Moon and planets (and by default, any deed he's sold to others). These guys should be put out of business. They've suckered enough people out of their money.

I'm curious now as to what the BA says in his book about the subject. (I do intend to buy a copy someday, I swear! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img])

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

So, out of the other 8 celestial objects, are the Gas Giants included? It would be pretty funny to tell Tom Cruise that his little plot of "land" on Jupiter is actually only gas. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-02e.html

I think Mr.Pop should consider sueing Mr. Hope for interuption of service, i.e., lunar eclipses.

What a surprise! Three of the five celebrity names they give are Scientologists. They are usually so sagacious and discerning, how could they possibly have been taken in by this?

This could work out pretty well, though. Why not send a mission to the moon, bring back a few artifacts from an Apollo mission, and charge Mr. Hope with "refuse collection" or some such charge? Who needs Congress' money, anyway?

I'll take Alphonsus crater. That is where Moonbase will be, eventually. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]-Colt

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Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.

Slight problem!

On January 27, 1967 (yes, the day of the Apollo 1 fire), the more than five dozen countries signed a pact called the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space (TOPGASEUO).

This forbids any country involved from claiming any territory beyond the mainplanet. These people aren't allowed to own Lunar real estate!

Just investigated.
http://history.nasa.gov/1967treaty.html

Apparently, the UN also passed a resolution to this effect a bit earlier. Britain signed up to it so the Royal family aren't entitled, and that also probably covers Canada, New Zealand, Australia and all other countries that still have the Queen as head of state. The USA signed up, so those presidents can't either.

Well, that's not quite right. See, the treaty forbids any country from owning property on the Moon, but it remains to be seen whether this forbids private citizens from making a claim. That possible loophole hasn't been tested yet. Besides, when it comes down to commercial realities, treaties often go right out the window.

But there's the big hairy problem raised by a person claiming ownership of something that he doesn't have effective control over. As the "man who owns the sun" said in the excellent article Bozola gave us: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-02e.html
So really, what I see in this guys claim is a very flimsy foundation. Here's what the NZ site claims as the basis for ownership: http://www.lunarrealty.co.nz/questions.lasso#1

So basically, he started his claim by using a 150 year-old US act as a precident, when the US is forbidden from controlling lunar property! Then he says his claim is valid simply because no country has bothered to contest it (as if they'd take it seriously).

Oh, wait. I'm sorry. He's also filed a US copyright on it. I guess that makes it fully legal then. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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...And that, my leige, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

<font size="-1">(minor rewording)</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Hall on 2002-12-08 08:45 ]</font>

Then I think that we sure should immediately go to the UN to make sure that Luna remains out of the grubby hands of some cocky little upstart! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif[/img]

I've just thought of the solution. These evil cheating demented scum (not to be biased or anything) say they paid money to buy Lunar real estate. But, since the Outer Space Treaty forbids any nation from owning it, who did they buy it from? No-one owned it in the first place. The only way for anyone to claim it is to go there and stake the claim.

Has Mr. Hope got a Saturn V is his garage?

This is apparently based on his claim that he has the right based upon the Homestead Act. This Act allowed the purchase (no, the land wasn't free, just very cheap) of a certain amount of land (40 acres for 1832). Certainly not the amount of land present on the moon.

The alleged copyrighting of the claim is utterly meaningless. The most it can hope to secure him is a copyright on the description he used of the moon terrain, as put in his copyright application. The copyright office has never been for recording deeds. If it were, I could claim whatever I wanted, and the office would not bat an eye, as their job is primarily rubber stamping the application, rather than looking at its merits.

This reminds me of the actions of a certain loony group in my state call "The Republic of Texas." (that's the actual group name). This group had as its premise that the annexation of Texas in 1836 was illegal, and that Texas is therefore still independent of the U.S. They are particularly vicious with their critics in media and elsewhere, and would file bogus liens on the critics' property, usually of about 1 billion dollars. Just because they are filed does not mean that they are real (even when they are filed in the correct office).

This post does not constitute legal advice of any kind.

To be fair, they do offer a money back guarantee if you are not completely satisfied. Would they do a refund if Nasa plants a space station on *my* land without my permission? And what if my particular crater has the water in it, do I get mineral rights? And if you set up a rival company and started selling plots of land, what court in world would hear the case if they sued me?

Can anyone supply me with a list of their customers, as I might just be able to sell them the Eifel tower, Forth Bridge and do a reasonable rate on The Statue of Liberty...

I am lmfao! For this claim to be legitimate the US has to own the planets! Nowhere are the planets defined as US territory. If I ever become rich enough to set up a moon or mars colony Im going to put it wherever I want! And what if I start a goverment on it? Do I still fall under "earth" law?

Wait! HE declared the moon to be a country! He has a lunar construction and all! Technically didn’t he declare independence from the United States? I say we ask bush to bomb this traitor!

On the other hand the French Government may have some claim to title over Iapatus, I think that Cassini gave this moon and the others he had discovered to Loius XIV, and as far as I know the French Govt has never officially dropped the claim.

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We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

John Sladek, The New Apocrypha, pg 34.

I guess I'll just make a web page selling deeds to currently undiscovered planets!

I hereby declare under the witness of those reading this post that the ownership of the Alpha Centauri star system including all planets, moons, comets and asteroids will hencefore belong to me. Any persons, nations, orginazations or similar entities wishing to visit my star system must first submit the appropriate forms along with a modest prossesing fee no less then 90 days before the date of arrival.

Trespassers will be shot on sight.



If you can't even poke a stick in the ground of the land you claim to own, then you don't really own it.

~Bub

I declare my ownership and complete authorit-ah in the Epsilon Indi system. Any ships entering the system without authorization will be used as target practice for the Epsilon Imperial Fleet.

Seriously... why do people actually sell lunar (or martian or whatever) real estate. Oh yea. They can con people out of dollars. (or rubles, or pesos...)

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"Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what."
-Sir Arthur Eddington

It's like saying, "I hereby claim all unclaimed lands as mine!" :-?

I just saw a rerun of Conan O'Brian that had a guy from the States claiming ownership of the moon and other planets and moons in our solar system. Didn't catch his name but he claims to be the first person to do so. He says that companies like Marriot Hotels has bought land on the moon from him. :roll: :-? Wonder what investors would think of that?

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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan

You can own all. But your heirs are the ones who have to fight for the claim.

We should get George W. to put huge property taxes on moon property. If people can afford to buy them, they can afford to support the government.

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Imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein

So you'll only get away with it for four and a half years.

So if you buy forty acres on the moon from this guy, and then, say, China puts a base there, is this guy gonna defend your claim, offer legal aid? Anything? "Claiming" is one thing. Owning and controlling are something else.

It would be similar to the Falkland Islands and Kuwait. Argentina and Iraq had claims to owning them, but couldn't defend their takeovers.
In Canada we have a claim to the Arctic and many here feel we may be challenged one day. We tried to buy a few nuclear subs to defend it , but the White House told us not to. I wonder if........

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'Sir........, I don't like these numbers.'
'Then hire somebody that can change them!'
("`-/")_.-'"``-.,,
\. . `; -._( );, `)
(v_,)' _ )`-. \ ``'`
_.- _..-/ /((.'
((,.-' ((,/

Sorry, guys, you're all to late. I bought my land back in 1950 from ol' Delos D. Harriman himself.