[quote="HankSolo"]Also, A7, regarding MIDI,

I forgot everything about MIDI, although I enjoy it now and then, yes quite useful. But the point is, all the ancient cultural music I know of is based on just intervals and to get synthsizers with adjustable pitch bend can be costly. I have an extra SB Live Soundcard but am still waiting to get a working software of Justonic (TM). This software recalculates the intervals to mathematical ratios of the just scale and needs to work with a synth, in addition it should work with soundfonts. I had a OCR scanner where you can put in a score on the scanner and get notes transcribed in midi, then converted and recalculated to exact pitch and harmonies. This way I reconstruct ancient sumerian music. I am waiting for a better pc and some better development of Justonics so I can pay for the outfit and can play legally. However I do save my files in mp3 for convenience. The music of the spheres discussed may use the same principles, I have evidence for this, but that would be another book.

OC, Icke is no free masons definitly, he accuses very horrible things to Sitchin. But you have to ask him for this, he is giving some live radio shows in the next few weeks:

David is interviewed by Hehpsehboah on her PalTalk Radio show
"Eye on the Future with the Prophet of Peace"
Wednesday June 11th 7-10 PM Pacific Daylight Time.
To join the show: Click Here
OR
Sign-up with PalTalk and interact during the show
through audio and text. You will need a microphone
if you wish to ask a question of David in audio.
Click here for detailed instructions.

June 19th - David Icke on the
MARK SCOTT SHOW (Detroit)
9:30 - Noon EST

June 27th - David Icke on
WAOK Atlanta with Mark Askew
8:00 - 10:00 am EST

July 25th - David Icke on

I had read on Icke's site that he thought Sitchin was a "baby-eating, reptilian, shape-shifting alien". I thought that pretty much summed-up his ideas.

Where can I get some of this Sumerian music in MIDI format? I'd love to hear it. Who knows, maybe I could compose a song around it! Or write a new song using Sumerian styles. That would be cool...

That matter would need many books and has to got at slowly. If you give your email address I will arrange to have you send an mp3 I recorded to hear like the famous harp of Ur sounded, the one that was stolen recently from Baghdad Museum. There are some people out there playing sumerian music, yeah - similarities and differences between them. To set up the stage it would be best to follow the thread Carolyn mentioned and see how this technology advances and how it can be employed in this field. Maybe you could follow this up and see how far you can reach. More on this subject later, it is just too exhaustive to start with now.

no, not yet. the books have not arrived yet.

but i have dozens of sumerian texts in archive (some tablets and sumerian art images also), im collecting them. unfortunetly they're not Sitchins translations so many things dont make any sense :wink:

seriously, those texts are very interesting, and i fail to see in them the mysticism that the scholars do. suddenly a machine that has the abbility to sumerge and surface the waters (gargling the waters and producing massive waves that throw the fish around) and which is patently commanded by Enki himself as described by the sumerians turns into a mythological underworld of magic proportions.

a space ship that is hidden in an hangar and has the hability to fly into the sky abode by some sort of computerized speech recognition device and autopilot hardware suddenly becomes a giant bird that talks, sleeping in a cave and can fly so high that the Earth is curiously described as an astronaut would describe it.

because the Anunnaki had planetary simbols attached to their names as a sign of reverence for their extraplanetary origins suddenly they become the simbols themselfs.

these translations are all very poetic and very pretty, and they do make for nice fairy tales.

since you asked so nicely i even did the search for you, here are some factual studies about PX:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...0is%20Planet-X

Reg. VCR Streambox
some of the poetic translations have been preserved in history as works of art and it would be proper to record them from streaming video if available.
I have quick-studied this tool, it seems that it works with RealPlayer files, but has problems with Windows Media Player Files. I need to save streaming video of QuickTime files to disk, and there is no statement in the manual if this works?

can you provide a link to the media file in question?
im not sure if it works with quicktime streaming files, but i does work with some WMP files.

In sum. lit. we can find the source of the following sequence
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/wagner/home.html
click video above right bars
click Rheingold
click Erda warns Wotan
get video stream in QuickTime

Can you extract a file?

are those the files you want to extract? those are not streaming files.
just click the arrow button in the quicktime bar and select "save as source". it works, i just downloaded the file you said.

note that im using quicktime version 6 internet explorer plugin, so the options dialog is called by pressing an arrow button on the quicktime toolbar.

Tx for the effort, OC. I have no "save as source" on my player. Will try to get plugin tonite. The whole DVD costs some 100 $ at Amazon and they say, its US Code only, so you cannot use it worldwide. Unless you can convert the DVD into some international format like ...?

if you're using internet explorer you can also find the .mov files in your cache folder.

Arggghhh.. Ugggghhh.... Yukkkkkkk.............. Ptooooeeeey.....

I can't believe you just made me watch opera!!! You have to put a warning on stuff like that! It's going to take me days to get rid of those images and sounds in my mind. That was horrible...

Hank, I'm sure you understand that there is a world of difference between sending manned probes to a body a mere 280,000+ miles away (with a total of... what is it, 12 people over all flights) and attempting a 500,000 year colonization of a planet that doesn't get any closer than 110 million miles of hundreds of people — if we go by Sitchin's account.
However... if going by his account, they left their plant earlier so we're talking even more time and space and energy. They would have to conceptualize, design, build and launch ships big enough to hold everything needed for the trip, including foods, fuels, atmosphere, equiptment, and of course, personnel, including transportation vehicles and other neccesities an alien would need. But this would follow after a long series of probes to test the environment, compatability and conditions of the destination planet and the surrounding space. The Earth is much closer to the sun than Sitchin postulates Nibiru gets meaning that they would have to know what effects — if any — would the solar body have on a biological system not accustomed to the radiation levels to be found in the Habitable Zone.
How can they see in light like ours? How can they breathe in such a radically different atmosphere? How can they locomote in a gravity well like ours? All these questions and thousands more all need to be answered before an alien system can enter ours.
Not to mention that they would have less than a decade to come up with the first batch of answers and possibly wait centuries — if not millennia — to get even more.
This takes cooperation on a scale we have yet to achieve. It takes a lot of capital for one, and a lot of teamwork on many fronts — some thing that seems a tad impossible for a race embroiled in petty power struggles based on birthright.

On the rockets:
Sitchin takes it from Scripture and other sources that they had multi-staged rockets like ours. (If you want to get technical — we have ours 'cause they had theirs. We can thank The Illuminati for "reminding" us how to make them by sharing their cache of secrets to the Masonic Leaders of NASA and the Nazis. :roll: )
Even with the little info we have there, we can totally know they used fuels in their rockets as we do — fiery sort of clues us in there.
They used combustion engines.
Yep. A race that can mix men with fish and aliens with monkeys lift of their planet strapped onto large bombs.

On the compatability issue:
Not one ... not ONE biologist would agree on the Sitchmerian account of panspermia between Nibiru and Earth. Stop bringing it up like it's just something we haven't accepted yet. There is no accepting what is impossible. It may be feasible in the grand scheme, but not the way Sitchin suggests.
I read those books remember. He clearly states that Nibiru and Earth comingled their biologics and that they (Nibiruans) developed first because of whatever factors (which is actually wrong since Nibiru has such periods of total shutdown ... we would have developed first unhindered by long millennial periods of freezing and defrosting).
This implies that if one takes two identical biological cellular specimens and then plant them on two different planets, at some point BOTH planets will have bipedal humanoids who are biologically compatible enough to produce offspring. He says this clearly in The Twelth Planet.
Impossible.
This just shows his lack of familiarity with Darwinian evolution — which although still attacked to this day still offers more proof for its process than aliens coming here to mine gold to repair their atmosphere who, by the way, decide to upgrade the local fauna and destroy an entire race's sociological destiny in the mean time.

I have tried to get all the plug ins available, no avail, I get better quality of video now, but still far away from saving source to disk.

BTW, that scene is a depiction of what happened in the borderland of Turkey to Irak before the Sumerians proper entered into Sumer. The scene is a rendering of
...On a peace being again patched up, Adam-Thor visits the old Matriarch Weird El at Eden, who recites to him his ancestry from the Western Hers, or Aryans of the Oedl (or Ethel) and Dan clans (of Europe) ; also Eve’s ancestry from the same Gothic clan stock ; and taunts him with wishing to capture her central fetish magic stone-cauldron or "Holy Grail." ...
the whole story is on
www.geocities.com/sa_ga_g

Sorry Val, but you read his books, so you should know what he claims and what he doesn't claim.

First off, I don't buy your argument about political turmoil. We have proven that we, with our infant technology, can accomplish great things like putting a man on the moon, while embroiled in bitter wars and world-threatening arms development. Assuming the Anunnaki are more advanced than we are presently, what makes you think that they can't do it too? What precedent are you referring to that would make you think this?

Regarding the "large bombs" statement, you can make the same statement about us. "A race that can mix men with mice lift off the planet strapped onto large bombs." Again, our present technology and limitations are mimicking the past. We have genetic engineering technology right now, and we use it all the time, and even mix human genes with the genes of other species. And yes, we still use rocket technology, and we have sent spaceships outside of our solar system! I think we're living proof that the Anunnaki scenario is not ridiculous, as you seem to think. Just look at ourselves!

Regarding panspermia, please explain exactly what is impossible. Sitchin states that Nibiru and Earth (Tiamat) were seeded with the same forms of life. So we both started with the same building blocks. Are you saying it is impossible for humanoid-type beings to arise on both planets? Please play out the evolution of a technologically advanced being in your head. Keep in mind how evolution favors efficiency and must devote precious resources to one improvement at the expense of another. Please think about this and tell me what the end result may look like. The humanoid form is ideal, as we have just as many eyes, ears, noses, mouths, arms, and legs as we need to survive and manipulate our environment to the point that we can create advanced technology. No more, no less. We don't have 20 eyes and 32 arms because we don't need them, and those would be precious resources that are better used to create a more intelligent brain. We don't need 3 arms either for the same reason, and 1 arm is too little to be able to manipulate our environment (like for chipping rocks). 2 arms is perfect. Likewise, 2 eyes and 2 ears are necessary for depth perception. Any more would require more resources to create them and process the extra information. Efficiency will demand no more, and no less, than 2 eyes and ears for a technologically advanced being. You see where I'm going, right? The demands that a technologically advanced being will put on evolution (and vice-versa) may end up with similar looking beings, especially when they start with the same genetic materials.

Furthermore, life is simply a chemical chain reaction. If we use the same chemicals, that chain reaction will be the same whether you are on Earth or on Nibiru. We won't have different chain reactions if we are using the same chemicals. Now if we started with different chemicals, I can understand that we could have completely different results, but that is not the case as Sitchin claims. I have a very complex idea of how this works, and I don't know if I'm explaining it right as I've never tried to put it into words. I can continue if you wish.

The best way I can put it right now is (and I used this example previously):
If you mix flour, water, and yeast, and bake it, you will always get bread. Every time. Depending on how you prepare, mix, and bake it, you will get different types of bread, but it will always be bread. You will never get steak.

What you are saying is that we should expect the Anunnaki to be steak. I say that is an illogical assumption. This may be simplistic, but I think it conveys the idea correctly.

Wow. Looked like a bunch of fat people screaming to me.

Ahem... excuse me... "gravity-challenged" people...

Here are a few:

holes, #1

holes, #2

holes, #3

holes, #4

holes, #5

I will address your other points shortly.

__________________
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." -George Bernard Shaw

Hank,

Let's start this from the beginning.

You have two planets. Nibiru and Tiamat. Either or both have simple — or perhaps even advanced life on them.
Now ... toss them like a salad together — which is a rough example, but visually accurate as Sitchin suggests that the two bodies did exchange biological material.
Now, are you saying that Sitchin says lifeFORMS exchanged places or just the biological building blocks? The way I read it, it seems Sitchin is suggesting the later, as I would find it rather impossible that a complex multi-celled lifeform would be able to survive a cross planet trip during a cataclysm. The catastrophic loss of atmosphere and overall energy release would mean the death to all advanced life — especially if one of the planets is torn asunder as Tiamat "was."
What's left to "seed" would be organic materials. Any DNA molecules that were viable will die. Any cells, etc. You think that if Tiamat had, let's say, cats, walking around and Nibiru hits that in a few years — or longer — both planets would have cats? Nope. You'd have dying cat cells strewn about.
Sheesh. Read up a tad more on how the natural world works.

So, let's say that the organic material is seething around in an ocean on both planets after the mixing. Every single thing that makes up a blue-green algae cell is the accumulation of billions of combinations which had to occur to build RNA to DNA, and this process is not a guarantee. In fact, some scientists discount it happening naturally on Earth (panspermia enter stage left) because the combination probability numbers are astounding.
So ... not only does life reemerge here, it does so in the exact same form there. Then onto the next modification ... and so on ... and so on ... identically to lead to bisexed cells, plants, animals, invertabrates to vertibrates to fish to amphibians to reptiles to mammals.
Hmm. I guess the Universe isn't as wonderous as I thought if this process is dime a dozen anywhere organic materials are laying about.
Nonsense, Hank.

And ... if our form is so perfect, why are we the sole proprietors of its benefits? You think we are the pinnacle of life?
We are weaklings compared to the many millions of animals of all forms which best us in survival and skill and natural ability. We are not the fastest and not the strongest and certainly not the smartest ... unless you take "intelligence" as the governing factor ... and what is that anyway?
We are the current form of a process that is continuing even as we speak. We are the result of 3.5 billion years of evolution on this planet and under these conditions with specific perameters which cannot be duplicated elsewhere. If Nibiru exists, it has its own set of perameters and conditions and life there would evolve to that.
Why would the Niburians have to be bipedal if their planet is larger than ours? They would have a greater gravity which means that life there would be at an advantage if they keep lower to the ground — to stop being crushed by gravity. The lower the better and faster and easier to feed and live to reproduce.
Yet, the Anunnanki are depicted as tall humanoids.
Hmm.
Lower light levels would mean that their visual cortex would be different — meaning a different brain configuration — meaning a difference in the shape of the head.
Yet, humans — who are designed and programmed to identify beauty in other humans based on obvious and HIDDEN biological clues and proportions — found the Anunnanki quite handsome and beautiful since they looked just hairless great apes. Like we do — or actually DID — since Homo Erectus (which is remarkably close to us already) is the template they used — alledgedly.
Why five fingers if ours is the result of serendipity?
Why the preditory setup for the systemic sense?
I could go on ... but I won't.

What say you?

Hole#1: Should I assume that this is proven fact and that there is data to back this up? Or is it an opinion? And is someone's anonymous opinion on a bulletin board, without doing any testing, enough to discredit Sitchin? I think we have already shown that other "claims" that Nibiru would affect the inner planets have been proven baseless and merely someone's opinion. Well... my opinion is that it can exist.

Hole#2: The entire argument here is that Sitchin's translations don't match other mainstream translations. Sitchin proponents have some issues with mainstream translations. I think we have covered this repeatedly. Of course they don't match. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Hole#3: The cylindar seal in question shows what appears to be the Sun surrounded by 11 objects. The question of why the Sumerians would include the moon and not Triton is obvious. Triton means nothing to them. The moon is the brightest object in the night sky! The objects are not intended to be drawn to scale, remember the primitive tools and method being used to draw this. I think the disconnect we're having is that you believe that the Anunnaki drew this picture. They did not draw the picture. It was drawn by humans based on legends that were passed down over generations. The legends, Sitchin claims, talk about 10 planets.

Hole#4: Again, differences in translation. This guy wants to believe one of the mainstream interpretations (since there are several), and not Sitchin's. Why? Because the Sumerians couldn't have possibly seen a planet past Uranus, if even Uranus. So he starts with a preconception of what he believes the Sumerians could have known, and picks his favorite translation based on that. Not very scientific or objective.

Hole#5: I responded here.

Neat trick how you can link to an exact post. How do you get the post#? I figured out a way, but I had to view the source code of the page. Do you have an easier way? I don't see the post# listed anywhere else. Thanks.

Val, right off the bat perhaps that's where your mistaken. Sitchin doesn't say that Earth and Nibiru exchanged life forms. One seeded the other. There was no mixing and transplanting. And I wouldn't expect this seed to be a living organism. I would expect it to be the chemicals necessary to produce the primordeal soup that we envision life starting in.

Now you are just picking nits.
Instead of concentrating on how I worded the post, perhaps looking at what I say would be what you need to do.

I say that panspermia — although an idea I do not subscribe to — does not say that life will emerge identically on all planets — just perhaps that life will emerge.
What form that life grows into depends solely on the conditions it finds itself.

Nibiru and Earth DO NOT have identical conditions.

According to the article we were discussing:

From the same article:

You forget that it was probably sealed long after its construction:

Because the Pharaoh died before it had been completed:

Some of the smaller pyramids were built after the Giza pyramids. Others weren’t. E.g. Djoser’s step pyramid.

Unless you’re a skeptic.

Apparently, evidence for ETUFOs is in the eye of the beholder...

I’d like to see someone try.

Not quite. Nothing is science without physical evidence.

And why should we accept that as a probability?

I think you are assuming what you want to prove, here.

__________________
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." -George Bernard Shaw

In the upper left corner of each post, next to the date, there is a small icon shaped as a sheet of paper. If you click on it, that will give you a link to the post.

Val, perhaps I'm not explaining myself properly on the life issue. Please let me know if you understand my concept because it appears like we're talking about two different things.

The way you put it, our lifeforms are based on a random compilation of genes and chromosomes. I say that they are not random. Only certain combinations will produce a living organism. The others will not be able to sustain the chain reactions necessary for life. Like an engine. You can't just randomly throw parts together and get a working car. There are only a few combinations that actually work (relatively speaking). And those combinations can range from the simple to the complex. Therefore life may follow the same pattern of evolution on different planets, provided that they have the same chemical basis. There may be some functional differences between them, but there's no reason to think that they won't evolve in similar stages. And obviously, in order for the Anunnaki to have travelled here in a spaceship, they have to be technologically advanced. And I explained earlier what the physical requirements would be for a technologically advanced being, like us.

The human form is perfect for a technologically advanced species. We may not have the perfect form for hand-to-hand combat with a bear, but we don't need that since we have a brain and nimble fingers that can create weapons. The fact that we have such an intelligent brain, means that we don't need to have 10 eyes, or be as strong as an elephant. In fact, we wouldn't have been able to develop this brain if we had 10 eyes because too many resources would be devoted to support those eyes.

I do not believe that the human form is the pinnacle of evolution. Quite the opposite. However, I do believe that the human brain makes further evolution impossible. Evolution is all about survival of the fittest and natural selection. However, modern science and medicine have removed those factors from determining the success of our random mutations. Everyone has an equal shot at reproduction, unless your mutation incapacitates you somehow. Barring a catastrophic event, we will no longer evolve. The only way we could continue to improve our bodies and brains is to use genetic engineering to create improvements. However, there seems to be many people who have an "ethical" issue with this, though they never make any sense to me.

Wow, I could have a field day with that website, Informant.

For starters, the Great Pyramid was built by Khufu because we have found inscriptions on stones that came from the surrounding complex? OK... That same logic applied elsewhere would mean that Shea Stadium was built by "Dept of Sanitation". Hmmm... then again, maybe you're right.

I have no doubt that Khufu and Menkaure worked on the complex and built the little mud brick pyramids scattered throughout the area and nearby. There's plenty of evidence to support that. However, there is NO evidence to support that they built the 3 large pyramids.

I'll continue with this site shortly.

Hank,
I don't mean to come off mean or condescending here, but you are wrong on many counts.
Humans aren't perfect for technology and you can't count in the ability to make or use tools into the mix because nature isn't about what you can have ... its about what you do have.
We have hair for very specific reasons, but we no longer use it as other mammals do. Eventually, as we evolve, we will lose the use for body hair and it will be removed from our systems in subsequent generations.
We have eyes as we do for specific reasons. Eventually, as conditions change here on Earth, we may need larger eyes to see in darker areas _ say if we need to migrate underground for some reason, or develop different skins as the solar radiation plays havoc with our — and all animal systems.

In the Sitchin view, all roads lead to Rome — or bipedal great apes in this case, and that is easily disproven.
Cats are made up of identical organic materials, yet they are nothing like us. The same goes for every other organism except great apes.
We came after a series of changes to other animals which came after time or cataclysm. We are here because an asteroid gave us the chance to edge in over the dinosaurs — which, by the way — never once produced a humanoid and they were here for millions upon millions of more years than mammals.
There is no hidden "god" code in DNA. I see DNA as a great innovator and opportunist. But, its not even that which drives evolution. Mutation does.
A blue-green algae cell is happy to be that and remain that until it dies. In its code however, factors as free radicals and cosmic rays careene through its molecules, sometimes colliding and damaging its code. Sometime the change and fix is fatal and the cell dies. However, at other times, the change isn't fatal and is passed on to the next generation of B-G cells. B-G MarkII is happy ... etc. Its DNA just does what it's supposed to do.
To believe that great apes evolved on two separate planets would mean that every single mutation which occured here leading single-cell DNA to the great ape DNA also happened there.
Do you think this is possible at all?

Side note:
I would think that a species similar to Octopii would best us in dexterity tests. They are also very smart problem solvers, able to understand our machines enough to use them. (In machines I mean hinges, screws and locks.)

Khufu's name appears on a slab above the King's Chamber INSIDE the Great Pyramid.
This is the inscription that Sitchin decries as a forgery.
The only rationale behind that — depsite his elaborate explanations in his books — is that it busts his theory about the pyramids.
Not terribly objective reasoning there.

This may have been my mistake. The quote…

…should have been a reply to:

About the pyramids being tombs, here's another pertinent quote:

I think you mean the article. In any case, please do.

__________________
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." -George Bernard Shaw

"There is decoration in the third pyramid at Giza; that of Menkaure: A descending passage slopes down……to a horizontal chamber, where there is a series of panels carved with a repeated very tall and stylised false door motif……The lintel spanning the entrance to the horizontal passage is carved as a drum roll representing the rolled up reed-mat curtain."

That would place you underground and outside the pyramid, since there are no passages in the third pyramid. Therefore the entrance to this descending passage is already outside the pyramid and must travel underground. Pretty slick...

He then proceeds to talk about all the inscriptions in the temples and mud-brick pyramids that surround the 3 great pyramids. It can almost fool you into thinking that he is talking about inscriptions inside the 3 great pyramids.

"Something that the fringe overlook, either due to ignorance or deliberately, is that the pyramid must be seen as part of a much larger complex which developed throughout the period of Old Kingdom pyramid building. Adjacent to the pyramid was the mortuary temple, subsidiary pyramids, boat pits, etc and this was connected to a valley temple by a causeway. "

Or.... perhaps Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure, spent their reigns building this complex around the existing god's pyramids, while at the same time building their own pyramids elsewhere (which makes sense since at least one of these other pyramids have been identified). That's much more logical than thinking that Khufu built these complexes in addition to spending 20 years building the largest of the three pyramids. Remember, he has to completely bury this pyramid in sand too, in order to get stones to the top, so you still have the problem of unburying everything before you can start work on the surrounding complex. All this, and he wasn't even going to be buried there...

"We know hardly anything about the Great Pyramid during the Middle Kingdom, and it is not clear whether the building remained intact or whether a pious king cared to close it. We do know that the Egyptians of that time paid little respect to the temples of the pyramids. They used those of Giza as quarries for the northern pyramid of Lisht, which dates from the early years of the Twelfth Dynasty. Excavations by the Metropolitan Museum of New York revealed many decorated and inscribed blocks, and probably many more still lie embedded in its walls. Some of the blocks had belonged to the walls of Old Kingdom tombs, but a great many undoubtedly came from the temples and causeways of the pyramids of Giza."

I love this one. Exactly how did this pious king close the Great Pyramid? How were they able to plug the ascending passage from within? There were three plugs as I understand it, one behind the other. Where are the remains of the people who had to sacrifice themselves to close the passage?

Right here he says that the decorations and inscriptions were on the temples outside the pyramids. It seems that human kings can't get enough when it comes to having nice stuff written about them all over the structures they build. The inscriptions are on blocks that came from Old Kingdom tombs and temples and causeways from Giza. Nowhere is there a stone from the actual great pyramids of Giza that have any inscriptions.

Again, he confuses the pyramid complex with the pyramids themselves, and incorrectly assumes that they were built together. However, I see it as just as likely that the compex was built by these pharoahs around an already pre-existing trio of pyramids.

Why aren't there any texts describing the construction of these pyramids?