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http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l.../interior.html The convective zone starts at about 85% of the solar radius and extends to just below the surface. It is a region in which the change in temperature with increasing radius is so rapid that the Sun becomes unstable to convection This agrees with the idea that the convection is turbulent and 'unstable', but then: http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l...anulation.html Granulation is due to the convection operating below the photosphere that we already mentioned in the section on the solar interior. This convection produces columns of rising gas just below the photosphere that are about 700 to 1000 km in diameter. Doesn't this contradict the previous statement? How can columns of convection ~1000km in diameter and ~100000km long exist in this turbulent and unstable region? http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/Sun.html Granuales are small structures approximately 1000 km across that cover the entire solar surface, except for the sunspot regions. They are the tops of deep gas columns where energy is transported by convection ... Individual granuales last for about 20 minutes. So what exactly is the story about the columns? 1000km diameter, 100000km length, and they only remain stable for 20 minutes at a time, in a region where they can't form at all? ![]()
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In short, our knowledge of the physics of convection in the sun is not now brought into serious doubt or question, simply because somebody wrote a webpage using the word "column".
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The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it. -- Bertrand Russell |
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The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it. -- Bertrand Russell |
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there is no governor anywhere |
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Excellent response to my questions about the Russell paper, thanks Tim Thompson. I was looking around for some more info on stellar convection and stumbled upon this paper, A few things we do not know about the Sun and F stars and G stars (postscript only, viewer can be found here). What is your take on the concerns of the author? Here are some of them:
* We do not know how to make realistic model atmospheres - We do not know the energy distribution or the photospheric spectrum of a single star, even the sun. We do not know what spectrum corresponds to a given effective temperature, gravity, or abundances, The uncertainties in solar abundances are greater than 10%, except for hydrogen, and solar abundances are the best known. * We do not have good spectra of the sun or any other star - Low resolution, low-signal-to-noise spectra do not contain enough information in themselves to allow interpretation. Spectra cannot be properly interpreted without signal-to-noise and resolution high enough to give us all the information the star is broadcasting about itself. * We do not have energy distributions for the sun or any other star - I get requests from people who want to know the solar irradiance spectrum, the spectrum above the atmosphere, that illuminates all solar system bodies ... I say, "Sorry, it has never been observed. NASA and ESA are not interested." * We do not know how to determine abundances - One of the curiosities of astronomy is the quantity [Fe] ... What makes it peculiar is that we do not yet know the solar abundance of Fe and our guesses change every year ... Another curiosity of astronomy is that Grevesse and Sauval have decided a priori that the solar Fe abundance must equal the meteoritic abundance of 7.50 and that a determination is good if it produces that answer. If the solar abundance is not meteoritic, how could they ever determine it? * One half the lines in the solar spectrum are not identified - It is imperative that laboratory spectrum analyses be improved and extended, and that NASA and ESA pay for it. Some of the analyses currently in use date from the 1930s and produce line positions uncertain by 0.01 or 0.02A. This was written near the end of 1999, has the situation changed dramatically since then?
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