I hope this is the right forum in which to post this.

While I believe that Mars once had a significant amount of water in the past and may have trace amounts now, I don't believe the images from the Xenotechreseach forum show what Sir Charles is hoping.

http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/phpB...topic.php?t=56

To me the images seem to be some sort of imaging artifact or imperfection. But, being a machinist by trade, my expertise here is lacking. Does anybody with imaging experience have any ideas what may cause the questionable area in the image?

Regards, tbm

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There are images from orbit that look intriguing and defy easy explanation.

However, liquid water at the surface... would have to exist at pressure so low that a liquid would boil away.

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"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

I kind of thought so, but I'm net well versed in that. What kind of atmoshperic pressure exists at the surface of Mars?

tbm

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See here:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29jun_1m.htm


The best spot is the bottom of the Hellas Basin, around ~12 millibars, versus an average ~6 millibars (compared to earth sea level at a bit over 1000 millibars). Quoting:

However, even there it would still evaporate quickly. So exposed water would be expected to quickly freeze, boil, or evaporate.

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Sir Charles calls the "water" brine. Would that have any better chance of occuring or surviving in the Martian environment?

tbm

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He also says that "oceans substituted for the atmosphere", which appears to be a fairly ignorant statement of both oceans and atmosphere.

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I happen to believe there is currently water supporting life somewhere in the Mars system, but this guy brings a very Hoagland-esque case. Two crappy images zoomed in and drawn all over do not make a convincing case.

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Page 26 of November Astronomy Magazine has a picture of water ice in a crater on Mars. The article is very short. It does not give much detail but it shows water ice.

I think any image showing water liquid on the surface of Mars also would show a cloud of water vapor as it boiled angrily under low pressure. There would not be puddles of water sitting to wait for boiling and freezing to happen.

I know it would change the freezing temperature, but things are still very cold and dry on Mars.

There could be liquid water underground on Mars, there could be near surface microclimates with liquid water, and there could be short periods with liquid water on the surface. But mostly, the surface of Mars is very cold and very dry.

There is some real information on Mars, and we will learn more. But Mr. Shults (and I won't use the honorific as it appears it is undeserved) doesn't do real science, so what could be on Mars has very little to do with what he happens to say at the moment.

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Part of the question is the atmosphere pressure is so low. The helps explain why it is so dry. If you poured water all over the surface it would evaporate very quickly. A brine solution would change the freezing temperature but I do not think it would keep the water from evaporating quickly. This would only leave salt or other brine solids behind. Even ice would evaporate away without melting.

Am I correct in thinking this?

There is trace amounts of ice i tought on mars, we should send up a drilling robots with like 16 p engines attached have it drill and retreive some mnerals from it. Or what ever else it can pick up

At the surface, in parts of Mars that are not the coldest, ice does sublimate directly from solid to gas. Just like dry ice does (both on Earth and on Mars).

The Martian Polar caps contain both dry ice and water ice. But when they shrink there is no big pool of water left behind.

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"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

Well..........never mind. Sir Charles has recently posted his realization that the "water" in the image was actually one of the rover's solar panels.

tbm

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