All this Nibiru speculation is garbage IMO. If there was such a large planet coming close to Earth in a few months, it would have been detected by now. I mean, how hard is it to spot a large gas giant closer to us than Pluto? Also, a large planet in a very elliptical orbit is something I have a hard time believing. I suppose its POSSIBLE, but not likely. The Summerian sightings of it were probably wrong. Maybe it was Jupiter, Mars, or some stellar object.

Say what you want, but we do not have any proof whatsoever that Nibiru exists. In May this year, its going to be funny to see how the public reacts when nothing happens at all.

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-Zap
If you didn't like the opinions expressed in this post, get over it!

Preaching to the choir, Zap. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

For all you know, that planet is in some parallel universe and will only enter our relm weeks/days/hours/minutes/seconds before impact. That's what i hope for. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Let me ask you something--if someone's lying, are their pants really on fire?
-- Jerry Seinfeld

Dreams do come true!! But ummm nightmares don't. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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-Zap
If you didn't like the opinions expressed in this post, get over it!

I had a dream come true today. Or sort of... I saw my grandmother getting money, because her father was departed. Then I called her and she told me that she's doing EXACTLY that. I'm so hype about that right now. :-]

Oh and is there a good summery site about this planetx? I only heard bits and pieces...

EDIT : Blah, who reads first page anyway ? =) NM about links... http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/links.html

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FAKE (moon with flag in background).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: poorleno on 2003-02-09 15:28 ]</font>

Remember back in 1988-89 when that guy gave a definate date for the world to end? When nothing happened it made story buried in the middle of the paper and was forgatten the next week.

How long did the Y2K hype last into 2000?

Failed prophecies usaully just fade away once the day comes and goes and nothing much changes...

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"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." — Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

441!!!! :)

Until they come back with "Why they were wrong" about the date and "correct" their projection to another future date - which will be believable enough to enough people to make noise and bring in more money and all of that.
[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]


[corrected a missed letter]
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The lesser lights to rule the night, glimmers of glory, distant suns

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nebularain on 2003-02-09 19:07 ]</font>

True. I'm sure the vast majority of the public will not make any notice of it. But keep in mind there are a few Nibiru'ers that are or used to be posting on this board that seem to strongly believe in it. For those who don't buy it (probably at least 75% of the public), there will be little thought to it.

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-Zap
If you didn't like the opinions expressed in this post, get over it!

If you DO die, can i have all your gold ? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

__________________
Let me ask you something--if someone's lying, are their pants really on fire?
-- Jerry Seinfeld

<a name="JD2452681.EU"> page JD2452681.EU aka Eposodic Uplift ?
Based upon Eposodice Uplift(s) in the Pacific northwest?
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...c=2008&forum=3
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...008&forum=3&10
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...pic=2437&forum
as recorded by the Alvord desert "benchs"
the River Valley "Planes"
the Coastal "Terrises"
I tend to believe there does exist an object
{small&DENSE} in an elongated eliptical orbit {and its due} to pass near here for the next 400? years of a 2to8 thousand yr orb?

I agree, there is no "proof" Nibiru exists and it is definitely NOT coming this year.

But according to the Sumerian "myths" it is not a gaseous giant; rather, its a terrestrial planet from which the annunaki came to earth and created mankind.

But according to the Sumerian "myths" it is not a gaseous giant; rather, its a terrestrial planet from which the annunaki came to earth and created mankind.

No, according to Sitchin's translations of Sumerian writings it is.

Big difference.

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Wrong. Even mainstream scholars agree here. The "difference" is that Sitchin sees this as historical, not mythological.

Show us a mainstream translation of Sumerian myths that presents Nibiru as a faraway planet.

Oh boy... here we go again...

BTW, I have never read a single post on this BB from anyone who believes Planet X will be here in our lifetimes. Maybe there's one buried somewhere, but as far as I can tell, nobody believes it. The only arguments here are about Sitchin's Nibiru, which is far different than the current PlanetX "hysteria". (I put that in quotes because I haven't met a single person who has even heard of it outside of this board, so I'm just being sarcastic.)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm

5th Tablet, Line 6.

Although this translation equates Nibriu with Jupiter, this "mainstream" interpretation DOES show it as, in your words, "a faraway planet."
Additionally, Albert Schott in Marduk und sein Stern showed that all the ancient astronomical texts spoke of Marduk as a member of our solar system.

I used the word "faraway" on purpose. If the mainstream says that Nibiru is Jupiter, then Sitchin's translation falls apart.
It would be the same thing as claiming that the Greeks believed that there was a planet named Zeus in the outer solar system, unknown to modern science. Bogus, since 'Zeus' is just Greek for 'Jupiter'.

quote form
MoC by LAW (1929)p.98:
...His identity as son of the first king of the First Sumerian Dynasty Sagg or Ukusi is further confirmed by his being designated in the inscription as "the established (son?)" by the same word-sign which is applied later to the almighty Babylonian Mar-Duk, the deified son of the Father-god Bel, and of whom we have seen that this king was the human original and prototype, just as his father had been deified as Bel....

The texts place Marduk in markas shame("in the center of heaven") and this convinced most scholars that the proper id should be Jupiter, which is located in the center of the line of planets. But this suffers from contradiction since the same scholars who suggest it is Jupiter will also tell you that the Babylonians were unaware of the planets beyond Saturn. How does that work?

First off, Marduk=Nebiru!

(Also here.)

Secondly, what exactly do they mean by “the center of Heaven”?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm aware of the many epithets by which Marduk is known, but what does "marduk = nebiru!" mean to you?

And I guess you'll have to ask the scholars
who say Nibiru is Jupiter to understand "the center of heaven" thing.

Which are...?

BTW: If Marduk/Nebiru is in "the centre of Heaven", what sense does it make for Sitchin to claim that it is a planet in the outer solar system -- presumably the farthest planet from the Sun?

Why not start with the source we're using here? Contact sacredtexts.com and see where their translations come from.

BTW: The mesopotamians included in their "celestial gods" the moon(kingu), right? Therefore:

Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon, Mars - MARDUK/NIBIRU - Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.

And when we consider Nibiru as the planet of "the crossing," where the celestial battle between Marduk and Tiamat took place ("the hammered bracelet" aka. the asteroid belt), it stands to reason that Marduk/Nibiru is positioned "in the center of heaven."

Now its up to you to name at least one of the scolars who were convinced of that rather unknown name of "markas shame". Can you refer to any cuneiform sign, any lexical reference. Pls don`t refer to a website of someone else who doesn't know either.

Let's see...
I've already named Albert Schott and his work above. That's not enough? Ok, how about
LW King's translation of the Enuma Elish? Its right there at sacredtexts.com. It quite clearly states that Nibiru is Jupiter. Furthermore, do a search on Marduk/Jupiter and you'll get about 3600 sites dealing with Marduk being Jupiter. If this doesn't convince you that scholars considered Marduk to be "in the center of heaven" I don't know what will.
Lastly, please don't refute or attempt to debunk a theory without reading the theory itself.

quote:
Lastly, please don't refute or attempt to debunk a theory without reading the theory itself.

OK, no doubt Marduk may have been identified with Jupiter or another planet at one time or another. I even mentioned this before on this board.
The question was where it is supported that Marduk or Jupiter is at the center of heaven.
Where are the passages to confirm this, where the words - or could it be as well some misinterpretation? The quotes you mention should be outline in more detail to become plausible, at least.

To me, the mere fact that scholars equate Marduk with Jupiter is a misinterpretation. Why even say Marduk is Jupiter? Because Marduk is the "great heavenly body," the "one who illumines," the one who "shepherds" all the other celestial gods? This , I think, is the result of imposing our modern astronomical understanding onto an interpretation of The Epic of Creation or the Enuma Elish.

This is where it all gets ugly in the theory, I think: Where Sitchin supposes data.

There are three things I can think of that sets our mindset apart from that of the ancients ...:

1. The sky was darker then. Human eyes could probably see things our light pollution casts into obscurity. There could be any number of objects that may "fit" these passages, including Vesta or Ceres, who permanently reside in the midsts of heaven — literally at the foundation of the upper and lower firmament — going by Sitchin's analysis.

2. Watching and calculating the celestial host was commonplace for those who wrote these passages.
Looking up one day at Jupiter because your local meteorologist brought it up during his telecast is far removed from watching it rise and set day after day. Watching any of the other visible planets is the same deal.
Did you all know Mars appears to travel backwards in the sky?
That the Moon actually moves from west to east?
That the sun appears to make a figure 8 in the sky over a year?
Etc.?
Now ... do you know this because you read it somewhere or because, over a period of a year or years, you observed it daily for yourselves?
How then can you, I, or Sitchin even begin to suppose any of the planetary nuances either exist or don't without direct observation?

3. Faith.
As much as we may want to dismiss it or make light of it, faith was a big to do for people back then. It gave many of them purpose (either good or bad) and it kept people in line.
However, on a side note, since when does a vocal minority speak for the silent majority.
How do we know that "everybody" back then thought all this was truth? We don't ... and can't really.
The converse applies also though.

It was an interesting tact on Sitchin's part, to translate the texts in this manner, however flawed and unoriginal it may have been. It's always good to think about things like this.

Now believing it is another matter entirely.

I searched the whole text of the Enuma Elish, but couldn't find a single place where it speaks of Nibiru as being "in the centre of heaven". Where is it?

The ancients also considered the Sun to be a planet. Why isn't the Sun included in your list?

You can't have it both ways: either Nibiru is on the outer solar system -- and then how can it be "in the centre of heaven"? -- or it is a fifth planet outside Mars, as you suggest -- but then it isn't on the outer solar system, as Sitchin claims.

I was inquiering about the center of heaven. In NT Revelations God is placed in the center of heaven. It would not surprise me if the Babylonians had placed their Marduk in the center of heavens. I only like to know an original signs that is interpreted to depict this meaning.
As one scholar pointed out his belief that the Sumerians projected anything the found on earth unto heaven, so they found a center of earth and concluded there must be a center of heaven. And this notion was taken up by many civilizations afterwards to become a place of God, and ironically, not of Niburu.