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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 20-February-2006, 11:16 PM
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Chineson Chineson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G
It doesn't change at all due to the coriolis effect, that's what the coriolis effect is for. But one effect that does affect its precession (not its tilt, by the way) is the torque on the Earth/Moon system due to the Sun's gravity. This is an effect very similar to what you are talking about, Chineson, but all it does is change the rate that the orbital plane rotates due to the coriolis effect in the co-orbiting frame. This causes "precession of the nodes". There is also a precession of the closest and farthest points of the Moon's elliptical orbit, due to torques on the noncircularity of he orbit. But none of these change the tilt.
I know the reason why you all say that the coriolis force would exert an opposite effect in this issue now. You all might have misunderstood the situation that I referred to.

First, we know that coriolis force is a fictitious force, so it can be explained in other ways. Now I would explain more clearly but still with the coriolis force concept.

I have supposed a model that the moon is rolling on the surface of the sun. Please note, the moon undergoes the coriolis force because it is circling the sun, not because it circles the earth. There friends said rolling is not flying. In this issue, the effect is the same. How do you define flying? Do you confess that the air is flying over the earth? If yes, please ask the meteorologist whether the coriolis force affects our atmosphere. Our atmosphere is strongly affected by it.

Now someone may say, coriolis force on earth has right the different effect on the running object to what you applied it to the moon. If you say so, we are talking two different things.

Coriolis force to the moon comes from its revolution around the sun, not from the earth. Our earth rotates counterclockwise and creates coriolis force to the running things crossing its equator , yet as for the moon, this direction is relatively opposite.

We know motion is relative. The moon revolves the sun counterclockwise. We can also look it this way: The sun rotates clockwise to the moon.

Now the moon is repeating the motion crossing the sun's equator. This motion is right the way of a north-south running river, only that the sun's rotation is relatively clockwise to the moon but the earth's rotation is counterclockwise to the river. They get opposite coriolis force effects.

Coriolis force is a fictitious force,anyway. But I have also explained its effect that I discussed in my article in other way. Both are coincident.

Last edited by Chineson; 06-April-2006 at 02:53 AM.
Old 22-February-2006, 10:59 PM
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Old 22-February-2006, 11:26 PM
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Chineson Chineson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. Wayne
I must question your definition of counter-clockwise. I find this term too misleading. If I were to prefer clock-wise as MY theory we would give Monty Python a run for its money. Also the term normal I must question. Using our solar system as the standard model will cause more problems than it's worth. If the first man you ever met was white and you used him as a standard for normal, well I think you can see my point, it will only cause more set backs as other men are discovered. I also believe the use of comets in arguments for planetary dynamics is counter-productive. If you were to possibly separate gas planets from rocky planets, this may be fruitful as more and more interferometric data is building a good data base for which to test hypothesis. Good luck as I still believe your theory holds promise.
Dear Fr. Wayne,
As I am not a professional in this field, I may have misused the terms, or even misused many vocabularies because Enlish is not my mother language. I once did not fully understand the words 'unsubstantiate and flawed' but argued fiercely with Nereid that my article is not unsubstantiated nor flawed. He felt offended, I think and I am sorry for that. If anyone here is offended in debating, I hope he could understand that's not on purpose, including myself. I quote Jim's post: 'Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.'

Thanks for your kind advice

Last edited by Chineson; 23-February-2006 at 08:15 AM.
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 23-February-2006, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chineson
I know the reason why you all say that the coriolis force would exert an opposite effect in this issue now.
No, that's not the reason. I am aware that you are talking about the coriolis force from the orbit about the Sun, that's what I'm talking about too. And I'm telling you that if you exert forces on a gyroscope, or a spinning bicycle wheel, the response of the spinning object may surprise you. In this case, the spinning object is the Moon orbiting the Earth, and when the coriolis force from the orbit about the Sun acts on that system, it does not produce the effect you describe, it produces the effect I described. That's just what happens, either solve the equations or simply note that the coriolis force conserves the orbital angular momentum of the Earth-Moon system when you transform back to the reference frame where the Earth is in motion.
Old 08-March-2006, 08:01 AM
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Old 15-March-2006, 09:50 PM
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Old 21-March-2006, 07:35 AM
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Old 25-March-2006, 02:41 AM
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Old 30-March-2006, 01:41 AM
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Chineson Chineson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G
No, that's not the reason. I am aware that you are talking about the coriolis force from the orbit about the Sun, that's what I'm talking about too. And I'm telling you that if you exert forces on a gyroscope, or a spinning bicycle wheel, the response of the spinning object may surprise you. In this case, the spinning object is the Moon orbiting the Earth, and when the coriolis force from the orbit about the Sun acts on that system, it does not produce the effect you describe, it produces the effect I described. That's just what happens, either solve the equations or simply note that the coriolis force conserves the orbital angular momentum of the Earth-Moon system when you transform back to the reference frame where the Earth is in motion.
As a non professional, I could not debate more on this physics problem. I think we can leave it to competent scholars.

But I have experience in dealing with such similar activities which I would like to share with all.

RE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G
Here's a way to put all this in perspective. NASA has been doing calculations for decades that allow them to have satellites traipse around the solar system, visiting planets and asteroids willy nilly, sometimes swinging by one to get a gravity assist that launches it off to another. They do all this by solving Newton's equations, and they understand the forces on not only their satellites, but on planets and moons. The equations are the same, after all. So does it seem credible that they, or astronomers with similar resources, could have missed a simple mechanism operating to change the tilt of an orbit? How could they maintain the proper tilt of their satellite? And you cannot argue that the effect you are talking about is so weak that NASA might not know about it, because none of the effects you describe in your analysis are weak. Indeed, the effects you describe have a quite significant impact in just a year or a few. Can you argue otherwise, quantitatively?
For the problem that you posted, I think of a philosophical problem: Which time section we are in? Not the past, nor the future, but now or recentness.

Once a friend of mine was interested in sports lottery. There are 29 balls in total which are numbered from 1 to 29. Every time 7 balls are randomly picked out by a lottery machine. Those who chose and bought the right ball numbers would be the winners. My friend collected the recent records and presented to me. He asked me to work out a prediction formula with probability statistics methods. I did worked out some formulae with linear regression and non-liner regression methods. When I first checked the formulae with the latest record, they are practically workable. But when we used these formulae to predict the next coming new numbers, they were disappointing.

In a universe sense, we human being are living in the latest time section. Formulae worked out in the time section of now are all workable at the time of now.
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Old 30-March-2006, 08:17 AM
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This is nonsence. South of what? Sound like a backdoor geocentric argument to me. Can you extend this concept to the rotation of this, and all other galaxies?
Old 06-April-2006, 10:55 PM
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Old 14-April-2006, 05:56 AM
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 09-May-2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanatos
This is nonsence. South of what? Sound like a backdoor geocentric argument to me. Can you extend this concept to the rotation of this, and all other galaxies?
Is your this post a stray bullet? It seems confusing to the topic.
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