I was thumbing through the latest issue of Astronomy Magazine and saw an add for some book club, and one of the books was about Einstein and Godel. It mentioned something about Godel proving that relativity showed that time couldn't exist.

I am not looking to start a huge discussion, as I have not read up on it yet. Short of buying the book, does anyone know a good website with this theory? I have searched and found a few sites that kinda overview it in a paragraph, but nothing good for understanding.

btw, a library is out of the question for me at this time.

Thanks for the help in advance!

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I don't know of any web sites but I'll bet you'd love this book.

It's an intriguing concept, to say the least.

Time is an illusion. Lunch time doubly so. -- Douglas Adams

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Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

I've heard it's not really continuous, but discrete, marching along at a very high rate of very small increments.

Does anyone have anymore information on this?

The article here seems to mention something relevant to the OP.

"Gödel's solution to the field equation vindicated the deepest insight of Einstein's theory, namely that time is relative. But Einstein's theory of relativity suggests only that time does not exist in the conventional sense, not that time exists in no sense whatsoever. Einstein's claim is more subtle. He suggests that change is an illusion. Things do not become, they have not been, and they will not be: They simply are. Time is like space; it is precisely like space. In travelling to Singapore, I do not bring Singapore into existence. I reach Singapore, but the city has been there all along. So, too, I reach events in the future by displacing myself in time. I do not bring them into being. And if nothing is brought into being, there is no change."

A fairly readable book is Hew Price's Time's Arrow and Archimedes' Point. I happen to disagree with his conclusions, but it's a good introduction to the idea.

Lawrence Sklar's book on physics and chance also have some good stuff on time.

Thanks a ton speedfreak, that is a very nice read!

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I'm a professional, please don't try this at home...

HAHAHA, jamini, that was the book in the magazine ad I saw

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Murff

your right , time does not exist.

time orders movement, only.

in NO way does time " adjust or change " any movement(s). at all.

in and of its self.

Everything starts with recognition
Published: 6 hours ago, 10:35 EST, April 23, 2007
http://www.physorg.com/news96543355.html

Study shows how brain interprets surfaces
http://www.physorg.com/news96299370.html
To understand the big picture, give it time -- and sleep
http://www.physorg.com/news96287306.html

Mathematician suggests extra dimensions are time-like
http://www.physorg.com/news96027669.html

Skewness
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In probability theory and statistics, skewness is a measure of the asymmetry of the probability distribution of a real-valued random variable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skewness

South East

whats your point?

north [headlines]



The Cause is unknown. All the rest is just that -- a resultant !!!

assuming , headlines

I have known for a long time that the subconscious , or sleep , puts things together. this is why I will never control my dreams. as some do. to control ones dreams limits or controls ones understanding based on you the controller.

where as if one allows the info and the connections to flow freely one can come to a objective conclusion and understanding. of this or that.

yes I suppose mathematicians would, " suggest " extra dimensions are time like. mathematicians are given parameters. in which their study is based.

however it would be interesting to see the mathematical conclusions based on the realisation , that time is nothing more than the awarness of the fact that " time " is nothing more than the measurement of physical dynamics between objects. of which time in and of its self plays no direct part.

but that this reaction can be measured IN time but is NOT BECAUSE OF TIME. time is a resultant not the cause.

[QUOTE=South East;973920]north [headlines]


if the cause is unknown . then applying time alone will NOT help understanding it , will it ?

Time exists...its the future and past that are illusory

__________________
PW -- Plant Whisperer

so from your point of view how does time exist , independent of energy/matter movement ?

further

the thing is , is that , time , is based on an applied knowledge of movement(s). by objects . whether they be micro or macro. where else does the concept of " time " come from? really!!

we have extrapolated time as a dimension , from the physical dynamics of objects themselves and made time a dimension. which is purely erroneous.

Time exists only in the same way that length exists. Both are dimensions, and relativity shows that both are affected by velocity. Time dilation and length contraction are intrinsically linked. When you travel at relativistic speeds, time dilates, length contracts, distances shorten.

So what are time and length? Well obviously we can substitute the word space for length. So does space exist? I don't mean the atoms or virtual particles or quantum foam that may exist in space, I mean space itself. What is it actually?

Space is the gap between events in 3 dimensions, and time is the gap between events in the 4th dimension (or is that 4th, 5th and 6th now?). We know space exists because we can measure the distances between events with rulers, in the same way we measure time with chronometers.

So does space (in its purest sense) exist, independent of energy or matter movement?

space , energy/matter are intertwined. all three depend on each other.

none can and could exist without the others.

imagine energy/matter without the space to become. or a place to manifest , they can't.

if " space " were independent of energy/matter then space could take on any " size " or volume it wants. it doesn't. the smaller the energy/matter within the space does not collapse the space into a smaller volume.

At what rate does it march along?

But seriously, I'm personally sort of under the impression that Xenos of Somewhere demonstrated that time can't be continuous, but also can't be discrete. I think that Xenos claimed to show that time and movement are impossible. If time is continuous, then you can never get from point A to point B (there is infinite time between them). But if it's discrete, then at any discrete point in time, what is to tell something that it's moving versus not moving? It's generally said that Xenos was not correct for some reason, but some philosophers seem to say that his ideas have not really been refuted. I don't know if it has any connection to what Godel said, though.

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As above, so below

lets put this " time " discussion another way.

say for instance that a consequence of two objects takes so long in " time ". and then we build a mathematical equation from the result. fair enough.

but what if I take time out of the equation? does that stop the consequence of the resultant of the two objects getting together , NO.

in otherwords do the objects still have a consequence despite the fact that time is not included. of course yes.

and what if I take one of the objects out, completely , physically , then the consequence is nulled. and whether one brings back " time " into the equation or not , has no influence on the out come. at all

time NEEDS objects in order to exist.

but objects don't NEED time to exist. not time in and of its self. by its self.

Of course objects need time in which to exist, otherwise, how can they exist? There would be no time for them to exist in.

If objects are made of atoms that are moving, then all objects need time in which to exist, for their atoms to do their thing.

Precisely! And more specifically, to prevent them from "doing their thing" all at the same time.

In classical physics, time is thought of as flowing like a river, with events flowing sequentially in independent frames; the future rushing towards us as we leave the past behind.

Brian Greene interprets time from a quantum perspective, whereby the river is frozen, with all events - past and future coexisting perpetually. We merely slice out our piece of spacetime as we pass through the frozen river of time from our individual frame of reference.

Einstein (or maybe Woody Allen) said: “Time is nature’s way of keeping everything from happening at the same time.”

No matter how you look at it, time is an intriguing concept.

Time maybe may be 'seen' also s 0---- > in 2D - as a wheel - will? or --- in 3D - as a sphere with an arrow-dia-metar-in-it




8.5.28

ajasya cakram tv ajayeryamanam manomayam pancadasaram asu tri-nabhi vidyuc-calam asta-nemi yad-aksam ahus tam rtam prapadye


In the cycle of material activities, the material body resembles the wheel of a mental chariot. The ten senses [five for working and five for gathering knowledge] and the five life airs within the body form the fifteen spokes of the chariot's wheel. The three modes of nature [goodness, passion and ignorance] are its center of activities, and the eight ingredients of nature [earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego] comprise the rim of the wheel. The external, material energy moves this wheel like electrical energy. Thus the wheel revolves very quickly around its hub or central support, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul and the ultimate truth. We offer our respectful obeisances unto Him.


8.12.8

ekas tvam eva sad asad dvayam advayam ca svarnam krtakrtam iveha na vastu-bhedah ajnanatas tvayi janair vihito vikalpo yasmad guna-vyatikaro nirupadhikasya


My dear Lord, Your Lordship alone is the cause and the effect. Therefore, although You appear to be two, You are the absolute one. As there is no difference between the gold of a golden ornament and the gold in a mine, there is no difference between cause and effect; both of them are the same. Only because of ignorance do people concoct differences and dualities. You are free from material contamination, and since the entire cosmos is caused by You and cannot exist without You, it is an effect of Your transcendental qualities. Thus the conception that Brahman is true and the world false cannot be maintained.

taken from --CONTRADICTIONS of >
Buddhism -- Vedanta-sutra

3.7.5

desatah kalato yo 'sav avasthatah svato 'nyatah aviluptavabodhatma sa yujyetajaya katham


The pure soul is pure consciousness and is never out of consciousness, either due to circumstances, time, situations, dreams or other causes. How then does he become engaged in nescience?

7.7.37

adhoksajalambham ihasubhatmanah saririnah samsrti-cakra-satanam tad brahma-nirvana-sukham vidur budhas tato bhajadhvam hrdaye hrd-isvaram


The real problem of life is the repetition of birth and death, which is like a wheel rolling repeatedly up and down. This wheel, however, completely stops when one is in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In other words, by the transcen completely liberated from material existence. All learned men know this. Therefore, my dear friends, O sons of the asuras, immediately begin meditating upon and worshiping the Supersoul within everyone's heart.

I learned, and I didn't know that...

__________________
PW -- Plant Whisperer

Monday, news.bbc

If someone said this I appologize.

My analogy....

Time doesn't flow. We move across it.

Imagine a DVD. You have an entire movie in your hand... from beginning to end.

All of the points in time exist at once.

But the only way you can experience it (in a coherent way) is to play it from start to finish.

All time is there. We just are (in the first 3 dimensions) crossing it.