A variant after the big bang. Lets assumr the universe started and micro black holes were present as per current accepted theory.

Then given the density of the energy field they existed in there was no area or space to pop out into so they stayed. If so the energy would have been consumed and by nature of the black hole compressed.

The Swartzschild radius would have hyper inflated at the same expansion as the energy on the same balloon edge. This would have led to continued consumption of energy. The resulting centre of the black hole compressing the perfect fluid of the initial expansion would have formed matter before the outer edge of the inflating balloon and not expanded as fast due to matter not able to travel at the speed of light.

This means the initial micro black hole grew and went on to become the filaments of density as seen in the dark matter maps of space that give it its present spider web structure.

The initial cosmic background radiation should have many round holes in it and once all the energy of the hyper inflation was consumed the black holes would have swallowed eachother forming stuctures. Then a half a billion years of darkness until the greater energy of the universe pulled all the matter out of each individual black hole leading to the early formation of the first very light weight stars, massive and very low metallicity.

I am trying to stay away from all the other stuff I posted, so just based on this premise is this possible?

Cheers Mike

Which "current accepted theory" is this, that permits "micro black holes"?What "energy" "would have been consumed"?

How would such a thing happen? (I'm assuming you're still working within the "current accepted theory".I can't follow this at all - do you have a version of this in something other than an apparent mish-mash of standard terms and popsci analogies?It might be possible ... but I think the idea needs to be formulated in a way that is more amenable to being understood within a consistent framework, before I (for one) could even begin to work on determining whether it's possible.

Which "current accepted theory" is this, that permits "micro black holes"?I believe Sir Roger Penrose and Profesor Steven Hawkins theorised that shortly after the big bang occured it also caused the formation of micro black holes. I will have to check on this.

I thought if I tried to stay very closely to a theory already accepted and just looked at a variation beyond that it may explain what I was trying to show.

I am guilty of trying to link to many ideas together so I thought I might try to look at very small pieces and confine my ideas to things more readable.

Cheers Mike

I hoped it was still mainsteam at this point and to look at a variation just beyond that which would then make it ATM.

I thought just after the big bang the initial hyper inflation from the size of a grapefriut would have been the initial energy all wavelenghts, heat, sound, light gamma rays which was also refered to as the perfect fluid.

Cheers

I think that hyper-inflation would have scattered black holes, not inflated them.

Fair comment but where too? For the first 130,000 years there was only energy density to have position in. Any structure slowing from the outward expansion would have left a trailing filament.

In the hyper inflation stage it was an energy soup, no particles so size wouldn't be an issue for being drawn into a black hole of any size as all black holes exhibit some form of gravity.

Cheers

I'm not sure why you think there would be a trail behind massive objects. These objects are not moving, they are merely sitting in place and the space in which they are sitting is expanding.

As you say space was expanding that I agree with. If there was any difference in the gravitational dragging of the core of the micro black hole and the event horizon a structure of gravity would form.

I am probably a bit simple here as the reference I would use is the sun. If it were in this position the matter of the sun could not travel as fast as the hyper inflation. If like a black hole it could maintain an event horizon then that event horizon would keep up with the inflating universe.

Big assumption here the micro black holes formed after the big bang had a centre which was not able to expand at the same rate into the newly inflating universe as its event horizon.

Cheers

Thank you Nereid I haven't explained this well at all.

I was looking at the separation of the event horizon from the core of the micro black hole at some point in the initial expansion of space.

Energy ;heat, light, radiation and the event horizon would travel at the speed of light.

I thought the micro black hole could grow in size sufficiently to maintain its structure before the effect of the black hole caused this energy to form mass. This would cause the core to slow down.

Then if this was possible and the event horizon stayed with the expansion then would be a link like a worm hole formed between the matter formed in the core of now larger black hole and its event horizon.

Cheers

Hopefully this explains my strange words

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

Of course this is a self diagnosis in which case the patient has an idiot of a doctor and a fool as a patient, I think I qualify. I have booked in to see a proper psychiatrist 2 May 2007 for a real opinion.

I had asked my doctor for a CAT scan thinking it was brain damage. I think I had him fully freaked out by the, well just after the start of my conversation, he had approved my previous sick leave certificate and was very wary of me. He insisted a psychiatrist and after a moment of thought I figured it would at least eliminate one of the four possibilities. Brain damaged, syndrome, caffeine and thus chemically induced or a tumour and I have since found this article. I found it strange that other people didn't put things together as I did.

I was once asked for help with a fence and while deep in thought had reconstructed it dozens of times with a whole range of materials, visualised down to the last brick, the foundations, the spacings, capping, hinges, gate, fastening the pickets between the bricks. So deep and moody in thought that I drove my lovely young friend to utter frustration in the time I was taking and the volume of stupid questions I was asking, finally bringing about "it's just a fence Michael". The sentance had more words in which I truly deserved by then but that is the gist of it

I digress here but a conversation in my late teens here with the mother of another lovely young lady who had shown an interest in me came to mind. She ran the local centre for the intellectually challenged and was worried that her daughter had attached herself to someone that reminded her so much like the patients in her care at the time. Mannerisms and the like, we talked about it and she very nicely said how often they seemed to be compensated in size and happy disposition for what they didn't have in intelligence.

It was a pleasant conversation and eventually she seemed more satisfied that I appeared to be "normal".

If I am retarded, it is not disapointing because I am rather pleased with the bit that I have.

Cheers

The initial hyper inflation of space from the size of a grape fruit onwards would have expanded as a balloon would expand at the speed of light.

A micro black hole event horizon would stay in that expanding balloon of energy.
All the energy gamma rays and such would have been expanding.
The micro black hole would have been drawing that energy in.

As soon as the micro black hole gained mass would fall behind.
Its event horizon would stay with the expansion.
The mass would not and would form a structure like a worm hole.

These structures went on to be the filaments of density detected in space.

Cheers

I have been told that the micro black holes would simply collapse.

Surely that could only occur if they could give off energy.
They would have been totally immersed in greater energy all round.
The trend would have been to fill not to pop out.

Cheers

This will work. The hyper inflation expands as a balloon in 4 dimensions. The micro black hole grows and the centre is fixed on the expanding balloon of space time.

The event horizon is not constrained by position as the core is so when the micro black holes grow large enough and start swallowing eachother the event horizon is dragged around the balloon leaving a wormhole and forming the filaments of density currently observable in deep space.

This means at this point General Relativity is connected to Quantum Theory as all the matter formed is attached through entanglement in the inner side of the expanding hyper inflating universe.

This also means the whole of our universe is captured and every galaxy is in a filament including ours. By the way I had my visit to the psychiatrist today and he is sure I am not autistic nor with asperger's syndrome, I do rate as a bit excentric but like the earth in Douglas Adam's "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe" rate as 'mostly harmless'.

Cheers Mike

p.s. I like Mike

Interesting idea, although it is questionable whether micro black holes would have had time to form prior to the inflationary epoch, that is, in the first 10^-34 seconds. But if they did, then as Kwalish pointed out, the sudden hyper inflation would have expanded the micro black holes to enormous proportions, and I would think that they would no longer be dense enough to be black holes anymore. The tiny "singularity" they once had might possibly expand to the size of a "seed" around which subsequent dark matter structure could begin to form.... But baryonic structure would have to wait another quarter million years for the temperature to drop enough to allow any baryonic structures to coalesce.

__________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

I am only assuming of course but the micro black holes were theorised by Professor Steven Hawkins, and for this exercise so long as they came into existence anywhere in the first second they should have remained in the hyper inflation.

This is where they would be unable to give off the energy to pop out and so as space expanded they would grow and be less dense than the surrounding energy in space even if they didn't draw any energy in.

They wouldn't be able to give off energy until well after the time where cooling took place they would still be enormous and empty in space. There just may be enough baryonic matter to get drawn in during that time as they tried to give off sufficient energy to collapse.

Given that they may have very little in them the time of collapse may be nowhere near instant. Gravity would have started in the cooling energy and as it formed baryonic matter the gravity would be outside the event horizon and actually hold the event horizon out.

The first gravity in the universe in this case would have been outside the event horizon holding it open giving plenty of time to fill sufficiently to enable its collapse. The process then reverses when there is enough baryonic matter inside the black hole to enable it to start pulling more baryonic matter in. Then when large enough they start to merge and form the structures that we observe in the CBR of the early universe.

Then the process then reverses again as all the black holes consume the rest of the now cooled hyper inflated baryonic matter and start then connecting. This is when the the power of the void comes into play and starts pulling the now contained universe back out into filaments.

Cheers Mike

The beauty of the universe is in its simplicity.

Draw a large dot call it "A".
Put a ring around it call it "B".

All points of "A" connect to "B", that is quantum.
To inwardly connect any two points of "B" it is direct through "A" a point.

To outwardly connect any two points of "B" draw a ring around it called "C".
The points then connect outwards through "C" a line.

Topologically to connect this shape requires a line and a point.
That is why quantum is dots or particles.
That is why general relativity is lines or waveforms.

There is no hole or centre in the hyper inflation and this is why it all works.

Cheers

The joy in the universe is in its asymetery, that is the bit we are in.

In the beginning micro black holes had structure only as an event horizon and like the rest of the hyper inflation were virtually without mass. In this way they inflated at the same rate as the hyper inflation.

They were the first asymetery.

They would "experience" time relativisitically that is variable time. As a structure they continue to "experience" time relativistically. When matter is within this structure it also "experiences" time in the same way.

I will use an example, is not so much about the shooter but where the projectile lands.
In the case of hunting the shooter converts stored energy to kinetic energy.
The target converts that kinetic energy to damage.

When we shoot a virtually massless structure in a direction it travels in time not distance.
So when we shoot in any direction at some point in time we are the target.

Shoot forwards in time we shoot our children. Shoot backwards in time we don't have them.
Once the shootings starts, it must continue until there is nothing left to shoot with.

This is why I am trying to explain in my poor uneducated fashion, that the only way not to get shot is to not start shooting in the first place.

Mike

This is a bit far back some 3000 years or so.

In a twister theory universe where all galaxies are in filaments in order to maintain balance civilizations would need to totally respect each other's time lines.

The recurring themes about a child sent off and returning to fulfill all the terrible destinies assigned to them could very well apply directly to us.

Just as we would be aware that to travel back in time and change it causes all sorts of problems. In twister theory there are two time streams one flowing forwards and one going backwards.

For instance hyperthetically an ancient civilization could only contact and liase with us when we travelled in the same direction. This is left of centre but directly relates to the heart of twister theory and the DNA of the stars travelling in the filaments of density.

There could be intervals where we could not and simply would not be permitted to make contact so that our combined efforts did not harm each other. In this case it would be important to confirm the time frame as well as its direction of any contact. So far this has only been lightly delt with by "Red Dwarf" on backworlds and maybe the tale of the balanced human neither good nor bad who by misadventure killed and had to continue back in time as the grim reaper.

It is both light hearted and incredibly serious, we have some literature on the subject.

Anyway back to the origional theme is there absolutely any possibility that the early micro black holes theorised could have gone onto become the filaments of density that have been mapped in outer space.

Cheers Mike

This was posted on the energy into mass in questions and answers and really goes to the heart of a twister theory universe.

This is taking an excellent post on the properties of energy and applying an extrapolation that in no way is meant to drag any one into my ideas but reflect the excellence of the highly informed nature of the members on this forum.

If the universe is captured in filaments of density then both positive and negative states of matter exist simultaneously in the same universe in equal measure although not in the same location but certainly capable of transition from one state to the other given the right conditions.

In a filament of density to have the transit of stars from one part of the filament to another would need to include a transition through time and by reversing the progression of time and still including forward progression the nature of charge must also be reversed as a time related process and certainly not as an instantaneous explosion or discharge.

I would note the ancient texts would not have the understanding of why this was occuring or the implications and so give their own best interpretations based on their observations and faith. So by only looking at their observations, electrical discharge and the observance of energy such as St Elmo's fire and the intensity or the auroas in the north and south hemispheres what can modern science add to this knowledge with our current measures and forcasts.

Would it explain why our own super massive galactic worm hole seems to be so much more active and yet taking in a decreasing volume of matter. Also the nature of gravity in a bar spiral system if only perceived as a bar sprial because we are in the filament would show an attraction only to one arm of the spiral and due to the different position of the other arm on our off side explain it absence of influence on gravity to this arm of the spiral.

There are profound implications to twister theory at best like Einstein's revision of gravity a one in a million difference this need to use a gravity density model to power twister give two classes of black hole, one where the gravity draws matter into the centre and theoretical infinite compression. The other a super massive worm hole where the force of gravity flows through to "the other side" through the worm hole but along the side of the worm hole where the gravity of the rest of the captured universe holds the ends of the wormhole open.

It fundamentally comes back to this simple premise 'is it possible that the initial micro black holes grew to become the filaments of density that are observed in the dark matter maps of the universe'.

If this universe is in any way symptomatic of this then urgent action to understand and prepare for transition which would be noted in the dimminished intensity of the magnetic poles may be a reasonable precaution rather than just have it unexpectedly dumped on us.

Cheers Mike

Micro black holes to filaments of space dark matter strucure.
This would require a rethink on gravity as a pool not just linear.
Gravity is more than linear is more than Newtonian.
A rethink on gravity not just planer with a gravity well in the rubber sheet.
Gravity is more than planar is more than Eintstein effect.

This bit cut out as it has no relevance to micro black holes to filaments.

The hypercube is too complex for a simple person like me, I looked at an expanded line that is all and as a cleaner with a high school education only built the rest from there.

The expanded line is a tube and each right angle slice represents a point. Physically the interior does not exist so it is dark but if you could visualise being in the tube the ends would appear open and so outwardly resemble a wormhole.

So it is simple geometry a sphere at a point on the surface has a tangent of a plane and an intersection of a point through which a line can be drawn and that is it. That is all I have worked on building up this idea and all the rest followed.

If that is wrong this is also, cheers.

Micro black holes grow to become filaments of dark matter density.
For this to happen gravity needs to have density.

So all gravitation effects would need to have a crossover point.
For matter it is iron - the neutral between fusion and fission.
For magnetism the strength of the field.

This is where the simplest test comes in.
Two magnets should require slightly less force to hold same poles together than slightly apart.

For black holes there should be a zero point, I can only guess in our current gravity density it would be if the matter within is the size of a small mountain and that is by using mainsteam calculations.

Large black holes should give off large amounts of Hawkin's radiation and very small holes (the energy of a garden pea for instance).

The mountain size black hole should be the cross over point and given the right access to matter continue to grow or dissolve very slowly.

Cheers Mike

From the first steps micro black holes to filaments of density the first prediction that can be made is this:-

The force of attraction in our galaxy is between us and the great attractor arm only.
That is take the two spiral arms, straighten them out and measure against each other.
Where there is a density of stars on one side over the other should be a kink in the arm.

I have a ten digit calculator and so won't be attempting this.
It would be a simple program to run given the knowledge and position of the stars in our galaxy.
This would prove gravity density.

The greater density is that of the universe in a closed finite structure that holds the filament open.
This means a finite closed system in an open unbounded space.
This also means time is variable.
This means we are well past the halfway point of a collapsing universe.

The good news is the final collapse is nowhere near for us in our timeframe or for our children.
The bad news is we are about to go on a rollercoaster ride and should strap in for it.

Perhaps it is worth looking at for anyone with access to the right program.

Cheers Mike

Thank you to anyone who read this idea.
This is to wrap up an idea before the thread gets closed.
A thing should work, you can learn by the way it appears not to work.

I figured the right idea would look like it supported all the differences.
That's why I was excited with my twister and the gravity it needed.

I am a cleaner with a standard education only.
I can visualise a 3D ball of dozens of numbers and flip or spin it.
How many numbers or their sum isn't something I need to know, its just fun.

I had theorised 7 different beginnings to the universe, 3 or 4 starters, 3 or 4 cyclical.
A couple could be either, so it means I am six times more wrong than anyone else.
The great thing is that we are here and that is what matters.

I look at curious things like why does sound seem inside your head with headphones.
Normal sound and speakers make it feel like the sound is outside your head.

What if brain surgery had evolved on the same scale as hypnosis.
Would brain surgery be a stage act with some dressed up person shaking rattles.
While incanting something, lets make this person do some funny stuff.

I may just take up my psychiatrists offer to drop in again for a chat sometime.
My church has the view it is all about suffering to be a better person.

If I had got it, a brilliant guess check this link.
Imagine how weird it would feel to have that said back then.
This is some of my thinking link and why I am just as happy it isn't so.

No chance to be high enough to avoid problems and I do not like machines.
Better a happy life as an anonymous cleaner than with that pressure.
I can not stand parties and noise, I wanted to be a light house keeper.
Oh yes I let the crop circle people know their perfect circle is an engine.

The stuff above is like talking about my washing machine to stop people reading this far.
So micro black holes don't become filaments, good.
Particle accelerators may not blow a hole in time and I don't need to save the world, great.

Signing off because I really do work best well below my level of incompetance.
Cheers Mike

Micro black holes to filaments of density.

In fluid dynamics if you pull a fluid apart it will form strings.
The initial rotation it carried will continue into the strings causing them to rotate.
The strings will be the most economical shape, that is hollow or filaments.

The local gravity you experience will be linear, you feel pulled to the earth.
Another way to look at it is the flow of gravity washes you to the earth.

That is not the full power of the system, it is only the tiny differential you live in.
The local area on the filament is planar like the solar system, the rubber sheet effect.
The greater local area is your filament or galaxy so all the outer orbits are the same.

The full pull of the system is through all the filaments.
The system is hydrological, it flows.
In a dynamic system with flow measure by static observation is wrong.
The differences are one in a million but static measure is wrong.

In a dynamic system flow must be considered and the references have movements.
The laws of physics are good in the immediate vicinity.
They need relative correction in the local solar system.
They need a new correction in the greater local area, galaxy.

The laws of gravity are fluid and therefore dynamic and they flow.
In short static laws of physics applied to the universe are wrong.

Mike