I have been dabbling in astronomy for a good amount of years both observational and theoretical. And teh other day it hit me. Objects in our universe, Quasars, Galaxies, Balckholes, Strings, Worm holes, Super Novae, Galaxie collisions, extra solar planets, well you get the picture, are more interesting to learn and speculate about, observe, read about, imagine about, and discuss then made up objects from certifiable personalities.
Now most of these Planet X believers would normally not care or know about astronomy or celestial mechanics etc, but now they look up in the sky. Albeit for the wrong reasons. NOw what confounds me is that they are blind to the wonderful things that even our local neighborhood has to offer, Mars at its closest. The summer milky way where you can see teh CENTER of our Galaxy. That still gives me an awesome feeling. Now as I am a normal person not prone to hysterics or lunatic theories it is tough for me to understand why believeers do what they do. I bet we all are confounded by this fact.
ANyway, I degress. Can there be a way to convert some of them from teh "dark side" by showing them real but amazing things int eh sky? Ever see a picture of an X-ray galaxy? It is one of teh most friggin unbelievlable sights witht eh X ray jets coming out of it. Anyway, think we could get to the less than die hard fanatics (yes and oxymoran I know) with real objuects that inspire awe?

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"The big yellow one's the Sun!!!!"

Maybe those of us with astrophotographs could have a thread where we post links to actual astrophotographs. That way people without telescopes could see what we see when we gaze throught our scopes. I am very excited about Mars approaching in August. I just hope that the sight of the red planet in the sky doesn't scare any of these zetaloons. I look through my 8 inch scope, and am just amazed, even with just pictures of the moon. I currently have about 14 moon pictures up on my website, they are the first ones I have taken with my new ccd and new scope, but I would gladly post a link. I was always amazed by star when I was a little kid, and astrophotographs are one of the main reasons I began stargazing. Just the chance that one day I will be able to have clear pictures of galaxies that I can show my daughter, and let her enjoy them as much as I do.

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We've got a five dollar fine, for whining: Chris Ledoux

why PX when real astronomy is more exciting?

because when one's world vision is limited to the backyard and sense of history extends no further than last year, and when soap operas and tabloids substitute for real world experiences, belief in PX is easy.

its not that science is hard (well, ok, it is), but that it challenges one's sense of place in a universe that isn't as small or as comfortable as one wants it to be.

The people who believe in UFO's and Crop Circles, Aliens, and PX would not easily convert to appreciating reality, as in real astronomy or science.

I believe there are some people who really NEED something to worry about and/or make themselves feel chosen and special. The planet is doomed and they are the chosen. Aliens come millions of lightyears and only speak to them because they are special. Only they can see the true meaning in the signs and crop circles. They (and their fellow "believers")are always the center of the universe. They are always the important ones who have the secret knowledge and people who don't believe them reinforce their convictions, because the "debunkers" are evil and conspire with the government to suppress the truth.

So, no matter what you show them, they will look at it with their special Paranoid Sunglasses and come up with another doomsday scheme, or somehow fit any information into their pidgeonhole paradigm, even if they have to shove it in with a sledgehammer.

I think to a lot of people "Science" just gets lumped in with their paranoid fantasy of the world - one more element of the establishment, the power elite, the secret cabal, whatever. They are unreceptive to any idea that comes from what they see as "Them"

On a related note, some seem hung up on being part of that special knowledge - the super-important, only the chosen few believe hidden truths.

By its nature, science doesn't lend itself (though it is not immune to) black or white, single idea answers, sweeping generalizations, and quasi-unifications that explain all the anomolies in one big wormball theory. If complexity and uncertainty give you headaches (or are just more of what you're trying to get away from in the first place) then apply elsewhere - and these people do.

Many I think are much more invested in the whole cataclysmic world-ending/changing idea and/or their paranoid fantasy of the Secret World Elite than in the pseudoscience that surrounds it. The "science" is just icing, an attractive and timely package for good old-fashioned armageddon. It's like Star Trek - the science is nonsense, it's just a package for the story.

Or in short, it's all about your agenda.

We (or one of us) should conduct an experiment. Lets think of a hoax. A plausible one and start a web page and meesage board and such and see how many crossovers from Lunar Conspiraces, Planet Xr's, Hollow Mooner and Earhters come over to beleive that. We could write it up for a peer reviewed psychological jouranl on group beleif dynamics and lemming responses. Might be fun. And being that we know science it can be rather accurate.

Boy I love screwing with peoples minds. I should have been on of those Evil Scientists you see in movies. :wink:

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"The big yellow one's the Sun!!!!"

Planet X is good astronomy, its a good debate for everyone, the believers and the non-believers. It offers some real good entertainment sometimes.

I would agree with that if you meant a possible new member of our solar system, TruthHurts1.

I think you mean a NanZeta type of Planet X though, and therefore I disagree strongly. That is rotten astronomy.

It's not even astronomy. The moment a speck of actual astronomy is introduced, the NanZeta/Hazlewood/Sitchen planet X disappears like a chicken with the Colonel after it.

NO, not them, there just plain wierd and stupid.

You seem to be confused over the two different PX's.

all im saying is that i do not listen or look at any info or pictures that nancy and zetans do. they just lie.

The planet X that science and astronomy are looking for has nothing to do with Sitchen's planet X.

The scientists are looking for an ordinary planet orbiting our Sun much like Pluto or Neptune. Such a planet would not be any threat to the Earth.

Neither version of planet X has ever been detected by anyone, as far as I know.

Sounds like fun , but we have to remember these are real people, even though they may be gullable, and it would be cruel and inhumane of us to take advantage of them. We would be no better than Nancy and other cult leaders.

Plus, what starts out as fun, would undoubtedly backfire and start a real cult.

Kinda like the crop circle thing. Started out as a fun trick on farmers. But, even when the hoaxters admitted how they did it, the "true believers" didn't buy it and they still believe aliens are doing them, or unseen natural forces.

I find crop circles, and the like, to be quite interesting as objects of art. Some are very complicated and original. But an extra-terrestrial explanation for them is just not supported by evidence. The real concern I have about crop circles is the damage they do to an honest farmer's fields.

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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan

Yeah, some of them remind me of my Spirograph toy I had as a kid, but much better.

Them thar aliens have all the cool toys. :wink: