Again, I think it qualifies under Webster's definition. But this is leaving the thread. I want to talk about Expansion.

I musn't go back to 'other threads' and you musn't discuss them with me. That's 'Thread Hijacking', apparently.

I have a basic physics education and I know how many amps there are in a volt - that kind of thing. Otherwise I have worked with gasses (dichlorofluoromethane, acetylene, air etc.) and have developed a solid 'feel' for the subject over the years. I generally go to Wiki if I'm challenged on something I don't know (incompressible gasses) or if I'm curious. I think Wiki is the best thing since...;

Don't you ever step outside the box?

Naturally

Thanks

Now I have to look all this up.

Wiki says his work was not generally accepted...

I like what he says about 'implosion due to suction', as opposed to 'implosion from outside pressure'. This is what I mean by inward expansion.

I think it is the Penultimate Paradox that Clumping Up can happen in a Universe where everything is moving away from everything else. And yet, this Clumping Up is a genuine physical phenomenon. But that's another Thjread.

He describes, I believe, an implosion due to suction from a central point. This implosion is therefore 'centripetal' but the movement is not 'radial' - but as a 'vortex'.

This confirms my thinking that 'inward expansion' is taking place in this situation - this implosion - and the 'vortex' part confirms, in my mind, that the entire process is Speeding Up. For when did you ever hear of a vortex that Slowed things Down? Or an outward expansion that Sped Up?

Perhaps as much 'wrong physics' as 'bad astronomy'?

If that remark is typical of your reputed education in physics, it further diminishes the credibility of your presentation of whatever idea you are attempting to present.

When I saw that I could not bring myself to continue abstaining from this thread.

Perhaps you could shed some insight on how the air that passes between my lips expands as it enters the mouthpiece of my horn, passes through a narrow bore, expands again as it proceeds to the bell, and somehow makes a musical sound as I read this thread while doing the boring muscle-memory warmup exercises which are essential to maintaining my musical skills.

Is this headed for the ATM claim that the Universe isn't expanding, but the stuff in it (atoms...) are instead contracting?

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Measure once. Cut twice. Power tools are fun.

'This effect is largely what happens in a supernova when a star's core collapses'

Please leave conjecture outside of the scientific debate.

:-)

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I once put instant coffee in a microwave and nearly went back in time - Steven Wright

Hmm I find the use of the word 'maintaining' rather than 'improving' most interesting.

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I once put instant coffee in a microwave and nearly went back in time - Steven Wright

That is an astute observation. The aforementioned mindless drills are for warming up and preventing deterioration of endurance and conditioned reflexes. This is important for athletes as well as musicians. When I am warmed up I turn off the computer and strive for improvement by working on real music.

What kind of nonsense is this? Scientists revise their theories when new evidence comes to light. That's it. Throwing these "true" and "modern" labels on is rather silly, especially since no such label exists outside of whatever usage you've invented.

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"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain

Avatar courtesy of Bunny.

Well, gee, thanks. Now I have to wade through all this mess again and see what the rest of the context was of what I was saying when I said that, and then probably will have to go back and double-check something else, just to make sure that my off-cuff-remark wasn't SO wrong, or if it was, correct myself.

And all that after a day from hell.

Boy, did you really have to dredge THAT particular comment up from the middle of nowhere?

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"...wait for the ricochet."

Ahh, here's what I originally said:


Hmm. Okay, I feel better. I wasn't so wrong, or maybe even at all. Core collapse due to graviation does occur in supernovas (I think type IIb, but I don't recall) when the outward pressure due to fusion is insufficient to resist gravitation, and the collapse accellerates until it hits a certain density, at which point it rebounds...just as I thought. For a minute there, I thought I had somehow drifted into a universe of alternate physics...

Umm...maybe i was just being over-sensitive and missed some humor somewhere? Or maybe I AM in an alternate universe...? (it's possible, it's been a very long day).

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"...wait for the ricochet."

Oh Dear, I don't know where to begin, I just numbered some of the stuff, so let's start:

1. Okay we will let philological discussions be.

2. I am not hijacking your thread, I just brought up something from another thread (that you have not opened again, but which is basically the same as what is discussed here) which shows that you like to say you are well versed in gas dynamics, but apparently are not. If Wiki cannot find it, you cannot find it, if you would take a book you would have found it right away most likely.

3. I don't know where you are from, but if your physics education has taught you how much amps there are in a volt, you probably learned in biology how many bananas grow on an apple tree.
You have worked with gasses, so what? It has not taught you anything about them, apart from knowing which ones are toxic and which not. May I be so rude as to ask for you job description? If you do not even have the basics right of gas dynamics, how are you going to able to prove anything that you are claiming in this ATM section?
Wiki may be nice as a starting point, but honestly, there is nothing better than a good standard book on a topic, which gives you all the basic, which have normally been reviewed by other scientists, checked for errors etc. So, get thee to a bookery!

4. I step outside the box now and then, yeah, even in science.

5. You don't have to look it all up, you may just try to reason it all out. But if you want to look it up, go to the physics series of books by Alonso & Finn, which are very clear textbooks for undergraduates.

6. Yeah, his work does not seem to be accepted. Most definitely his thoughts about energizing water and stuff like that. About his suction machine, I have not had time to find anything yet, since yesterday, basically because I just got back to the office again.

7. Implosion due to suction instead of force from outside. Well this could lead to another philological discussion again, but if there is suction, there is a "low pressure" in the middle and a "high pressure" outside, so the air will flow from high to low pressure. Like I said, I ahve to look into it, but if that is the level of discussion then we can stop, because it is just labelling things differently. I have seen some stuff on air flowing into a spiral somehow, but I don't know the details.
Well, I hope you will one day find out a better explanation of the Penultimate Paradox, because until now it is just lots of words. Even though on LARGE scales everything is moving apart in the universe on SMALLER scales gravity still dominates and will contract and "clump" if you like that word.
I doubt that in an implosion, be it a classical one or a sucked one, the motion of the gas will be radial. There is always slight motion of the gas perpendicular to the radial direction and I am sure that the path ways of the gas are bent.

8. Basically astronomy or astrophysics is part of physcis. I guess you want to make a link to BAUT or something, I dunno. If there is loads of bad physics (see the ATM section of this bulletin board) then naturally there is also loads of bad astromony (see the ATM section of this bulleting board).

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Optimism does not change the laws of physics. (T'Pol)
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is. (Dao De Jing 27)
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Martin ( http://www.geocities.com/DrMartinV )

Umm, your links for Io and Earth's Magnetotail don't seem to be working...

I'll poke around some anyway.

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"...wait for the ricochet."

Ouch!! confronting me with my lazyness of (re)creating my website.

Tell me what you would like to know/get and I will see if I can send it to you :-)

__________________
************************************************** *************************
Optimism does not change the laws of physics. (T'Pol)
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is. (Dao De Jing 27)
************************************************** *************************
Martin ( http://www.geocities.com/DrMartinV )

Unfortunately, I cannot find a book here about Schauberger and the websites that write about his work do not seem to be able to explain his ideas in any clear text.

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************************************************** *************************
Optimism does not change the laws of physics. (T'Pol)
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is. (Dao De Jing 27)
************************************************** *************************
Martin ( http://www.geocities.com/DrMartinV )

Actually, just wanted to let you know, mainly.

I am interested also in the possibilities of life on the Jovian/Saturnian satellites, too, but I think maybe another thread would be the place to discuss that.

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"...wait for the ricochet."

The idea I'm trying to present is that Speeding Up Expansion - and exponentially, at that, can only be inwards.

Hurray, it worked! Now Hornblower - you have already won my respect and you must know I like hearing from you.

Woah! Doesnt it Compress, and therefore Compact (opposite of Expand?) at the mouthpiece? ...And all that implies - for example, this air is in a 'venturi', no? It's Speeding Up, Cooling Down, Expanding and Losing Pressure, isn't it? Isn't this air behaving exactly like the Cosmos?

..and here's me, thinking that it must Compress and Slow Down, Warm Up, Compact - as well as Lose Entropy.. a whole slew of effects.

This has to do with acoustics and resonance, if I'm not mistaken. What must other readers be thinking when they read this? Come on, you readers... Who's right here? Does anybody know?

I would suggest that you study it, make repeatable measurements of what is happening, develop a theory of IE, use it to make predictions, test the predictions, and report your results on ATM. All you will need is a vacuum cleaner and a pitot tube.

By the way, the air going into the ballon is compressed, not expanded.

Tusenfam, we absolutely must move on...