What if time were speeding up over time?

Would that not cause older (more distant) starlight to appear red-shifted compared to newer (closer) starlight, even if the distant body's velocity relative to Earth was zero when it emitted it's energy?

If time were actually speeding up, how would it even be possible to measure this, given the fact that you'd essentially be measuring time within it's current context?

How does time relate to universal expansion?

Let's say the universe has expanded 10% in the last billion years. Would that expansion cause time to move faster, slower, or remain the same? If the latter, what other variables (c, for example) would have to adjust to keep the equations the same?

What other constants might not be as constant as we think?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.

The statement "time speeding up" doesn't actually make sense. Given that the speed of light is constant, that would have to imply the "space is changing size" as well. Actually one can rephrase standard cosmological models so that space and time are both be changed by a scaling factor, but even in these models, all the observables (speed of light, etc.) are the same as when you rescale the model so that time isn't being changed and just space is being rescalled.

So the short answer is "no we couldn't tell the difference." Since we can't tell the difference, it isn't happening.

Hm. Time is measured differently for observers moving at different speeds relative to each other. Is the speed of our motion through space increasing as the universe itself expands? If so then our local measurement of time might be different then it was a billion years ago, but since the measurement we make is local, I don't know how you would gauge that time.

Maybe...stick somebody with a clock on the other end of the universe for an hour then bring them back, note the difference in the clocks. Then wait 100 years or so and perform the same experiment. If there is a chance in the calculated differences, then somebody's time is changing somewhere.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

The edit function appears to be broken right now (for me at least), the worde "chance" in the above quote should be "change".

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

And difficult to measure. Now that I think about it, I don't see any way to measure it. Time simply is.

Maybe a relation to entropy?

There was some noise about not appreciating the pervasive influence of time in the laws of physics a few years back. Anybody remember any references?

And it really is!

[quote]Would that not cause older (more distant) starlight to appear red-shifted compared to newer (closer) starlight, even if the distant body's velocity relative to Earth was zero when it emitted it's energy?[quote]No, it would have to have some velocity away from Earth, but this would be diminished, according to the red shift, if Time was going faster.

Probes launched thirty years ago would not seem to have gone so far.

If the Cosmos was expanding outwards, and gravity around us diminishing (in a less dense Universe), then Time would appear to be Slowing Down, as our own gravity increased.

As gravity decreases, Time speeds up. However, if Earth was surrounded by a huge shell of matter, if we lived in a high gravity Universe, our own gravity would diminish. If the gravity around us diminishes, Earth's gravity has to increase. You would have to increase the value of c.

Just about all of them.

Assume that t/s at 1 billion years ago = .8 t today.

Hmmm... Since I've never been to the pyramids, they're not there? Of course we have pics from those who have, so: Since no one has ever seen/observed the effects from planets beyond our galaxy we can safely/accurately assume they don't exist?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.

The delete....
What I meant to say about the number of constants that would have to change, the Hubble Constant has been upped several times already, for example.

I've noticed time has been speeding up lately. Meters have been getting longer too.

It's an interesting point.

I wonder, though, what would happen to the orbits of planets? I guess they would appear to be slowing over time, though they would maintain the same distance from the sun, right?

And what about distant galaxies? The light reaching us would be form a former time with faster time, so their rotation rates would appear to be faster than expected, or something like that?

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As above, so below

Seeing as the difference there is very minor it would also work if the time for the probes in their space sped up relative to ours in our space.

Light travel is constant but the variation is in space time. It would seem a bit backwards as if there was a greater repellent effect as one climbed out of a gravity well. Just a thought.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

And is it not true.. that the Mariner ( was that what they were called)? space probes are not were we thought they would be... could this be... Naa, or not maybe...
If time itself was tending to change. How could we ever know? are the batteries flat?
Just as we assume that C is a constant. So to must be time...
As a completely ridiculous idea I have worked out why the years seem to fly past ever quicker. When I was ten. One year was a tenth of all my experiences. Today a year is but a Fifty fifth of my experiences. Little wounder the years seem shorter. Time is defiantly quicker....NOT.

Time can not be changing or even seen to be changing as it ( time ) does not even exist. Its just the man made method of measuring the sequence and rate of events past and present. It is not real. Its a scale of sequences.

Perhaps we're already measuring it yet we think it's something else for various reasons...

Correlation between distance and red-shift, anyone?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

I am human. Fully human.

From what I read the further back we look the expansion appears to be greater. That intrigues me.

Time long past Time past Not far back NOW............expansion chart
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If the expansion is accelerated the further out into space we look. Then isn't that the further back in time that we look.

Are we seeing time speed up or are we slowing down. It is all the same really with reference to each other. It makes for a lot of fun with 'Lambda'.

With respect to not changing the timing the change is relative between the future and the past. The question is which one is changing? If it is the past then expansion, if it is the present (gasp non alors) contraction.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Time speeding up? Since we'd be speeding up with it, how would we tell?

It is a great thought exercise.

Well for us our time stays the same so no problems.
If time was speeding up the even better because we would see things go slower and slower out in the universe and get a whole lot more time to ourselves.

If time was slowing down the our view of the universe from where we are looking back means we start seeing things move when they appeared not to have much motion. Still extremely good because the universe is so incredibly huge it would take so many billions of years to get to the point.

Either way no problem

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

I'm not sure, but I think that this old (and closed) thread that I started a while back may be considering the same kind of issue from a slightly different perspective. But I think that some of the thought experiments are similar.

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As above, so below

I think the far side of the galaxy would be red shifted if this were the case. The expansion does not occur in gravitationally bound systems, as I understand it. i.e., Our local space, out to the limits of the Virgo cluster, is not expanding. The funny feeling in your stomach is not due to cosmological expansion.

But it's a fun idea to kick around. What happens under your idea if we take a clock to A. Centauri and back?