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Old 27-August-2003, 10:15 AM
juan casado juan casado is offline
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Default QUASAR ENIGMAS IN 'DECRESING LIGHT SPEED' MODEL

DeLightS model has already been discussed in this Forum.

One of the main problems of quasars is: How can an energy equivalent to 100 times that of a normal galaxy, be produced continuously in a region smaller than the Solar System?

To solve this puzzle, it was suggested that quasars were not at cosmological distances, but much closer, even within our Galaxy, although their redshift indicates that they are the farthest objects in the Universe. This controversy lasted for decades, but nowadays the evidence in favor of distant quasars is overwelming, so that understanding their fantastic power remains a challenge.

Another suggested explanation was that collision with other galaxies was delivering extra amounts of gas to the central engine, large enough to sustain a quasar. But further observations revealed that a part of quasars appear to reside in undisturbed galaxies (see http://www.observe/cgi-bin/log.exe?h...35.html#Photos).

An alternative explanation is provided by DeLightS model on the grounds of a decreasing speed of light. The main expected effect of time decreasing values of c on quasars is that as light slows down, the Schwarzschild radius of the black hole powering it will progressively increase. This will allow accelerated engulfment of material from the accretion disk; so should feed their axial jets of fast particles, increasing the energy emissions in all wavelengths in such a outstanding way.

Furthermore, as the black hole mass increses, so does its radius, so that each of these effects helps each other in a synergistic way that allows a natural explanation of such a fantastic power output.

Moreover, DeLightS implies that the amount of energy released by matter desintegration would be very much bigger in the ancient Universe than now. The amount of energy to be released per unit of mass absorbed should be roughly proportional to the total energy of that mass, and would be much higher if the well known equation E=mc2 is to be used with a higher value of c.

As the Universe grows older, c decreases more slowly in DeLightS model, and the black hole expansion also moderates, and so do the radiation emissions. Then we observe AGN of moderate activity and finally ordinary galaxies with low nuclear activity even if their central engines are bigger and heavier than those of their preceding AGN. Weak or eventual quasarlike activity, such as X-Ray emission, in nearby galaxies indicate that they usually have dormant quasars in their centers.
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Old 29-August-2003, 01:04 AM
Yul Yul is offline
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Setterfield made a similar suggestion a few years ago and it appears on his website in the paper Atomic Quantum States, Light and the Redshift around equation 120.
http://www.setterfield.org/quantumredshift.htm
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Old 29-August-2003, 02:46 AM
ljbrs ljbrs is offline
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Light speed slows in certain media, such as water. However, I do not see that this applies to the practically empty space of the known universe. I will go with the recorded measurements of the High-Z Supernova Search Team and the Supernova Cosmology Project in 1997 and 1998 and which have been continually updated since then by both groups (and by others). Measurement beats theory every time. Of course, theories which are based upon valid and repeated measurements are better than those which are solely theoretical.

The accelerating universe is one of my favorites in science. It is continuously substantiated. It is not going away soon...

ljbrs :P
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Old 29-August-2003, 04:22 AM
BubbleGum BubbleGum is offline
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If c is decreasing over time then the mass off the universe is decreasing. The rate the unverse mass decrease being proportional to the inverse square of the speed decrease.

If we assume every other constant of the unverse remains the same, there should be some weird effects that could be proven through observation.

Population I stars would have very short lives. Since each proton and nuetron weighed a lot more, stars of a given mass would burn much more feircely back then versus now (metalicity aside).

Because object lose mass over time, orbital radius between two bodies would expand over time. Which means the Earth's obit would have been much closer to the sun when they formed. And the sun would have been hotter.

Just thinking out loud. But it seems this theory could be easily disproven. Or does the gravitational constant increase in step with the slow down of c?

~Bub
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Old 29-August-2003, 05:22 AM
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The Bad Astronomer The Bad Astronomer is offline
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The evidence for supermassive black holes in the centers of galaxies is now so overwhelming that few doubt their existence. I worked on some of the data myself.

A black hole that large has an immense gravitational field. Something falling in gains a vast amount of kinetic energy. In the accretion disk, the flat disk of matter around a black hole, friction (from the kinetic energy) and magnetic forces can be shown to generate enough energy to power what we see from quasars. This is a relatively simple theory, far simpler than scrapping what else we know about the Universe.
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Old 29-August-2003, 10:49 AM
AgoraBasta AgoraBasta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bad Astronomer
This is a relatively simple theory, far simpler than scrapping what else we know about the Universe.
Still, some day you'll need to scrap the very idea of "black hole" as completely unphysical...

That's an obvious notion stemming from the fact of high-energy local non-linearity of vacuum. Though, then you have an option to continue believing fervently that the "spacetime" is a deeper reality than vacuum. But that's already a belief of a religious grade where science is inapplicable.
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Old 29-August-2003, 12:08 PM
juan casado juan casado is offline
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Default QUASAR ENIGMAS IN 'DECRESING LIGHT SPEED' MODEL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yul
Setterfield made a similar suggestion a few years ago
I want to point out that Setterfield theories and DeLightS are only cualitative and marginaly similar. For instance, Setterfield believes in an Universe 6000 years old, DeLightS implies that it is 14 billion years old.
Quote:
I will go with the recorded measurements of the High-Z Supernova Search Team and the Supernova Cosmology Project in 1997 and 1998
Please do it and tell us if you find results beating DeLightS
Quote:
If c is decreasing over time then the mass off the universe is decreasing. The rate the unverse mass decrease being proportional to the inverse square of the speed decrease.
A different possibility, the one build within DeLightS, is that mass conservates and its asociated energy (=mc2) is slowly decreasing with cosmic time.
Quote:
Or does the gravitational constant increase in step with the slow down of c?
No, it is assumed to be constant, as in standard models.
Quote:
Something falling in gains a vast amount of kinetic energy. In the accretion disk, the flat disk of matter around a black hole, friction (from the kinetic energy) and magnetic forces can be shown to generate enough energy to power what we see from quasars
This seems reasonable, but how much mass per year is needed to feed a quasar? What mechanism can feed it within undisturbed galaxies? and finally why this mechanism is not working in non active galaxies wich also harbour supermassive black holes?
My impresion is that the simple theory you quote is not suficient to explain all the quasars misteries.
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