Events in history match the precessional cycle. The following table lists some main events in ancient and modern history separated by 2147 years, a period equal to one age or 1/12 of a precessional cycle. Correlations are very strong, giving reason to suggest a long term causal process shaping human history. This thread suggests this correlation is in line with scientific astronomical expectations from the theoretical framework outlined at Precessional Cosmology This 2147 year long period derives from precession of the equinox, as a standing wave of historical causation in harmonic relation to the annual wave cycle of the seasons. The 2147 year age is a 1/12 division of the main cyclic pattern of the earth against the cosmos, the axial wobble with period 25765 years. There have been two million ages since the dawn of life, a period of time sufficient to build attunement to age cycles in to the cumulative adaptation of natural genetic evolution. Most interesting is the cosmic comparison between Rome and the USA, setting human history in a testable cosmic framework.

Year Ancient Event 2148 years later… Comment
753 BC Found Rome 1394 Europe takes to the sea (Madeira 1419) Foundation of Rome roughly same as Americas
580 BC Pythagoras 1567 Kepler/Galileo Mathematical Astronomy
510 BC Expel Kings 1637 Puritans Mayflower Cromwell Strong parallel
424 BC Plato born 1723 Kant born Leading Philosophers
384 BC Aristotle born 1763 Hegel born (1770) Leading Philosophers
356 BC Alexander Born 1791 France, Australia, USA, India Founding Empires
338 BC End Latin War 1809 France, Australia, USA, India Empires Expand
323 BC Alexander dies - Seleucid, Ptolemys 1824 Australia, USA, China, Africa European empires consolidate
282 BC Tarentum 1865 USA Civil War Rome consolidates Italy
275 BC Pyrrhus 1872 Colonial Powers
263 BC First Punic War 1884 Colonial Powers
241 BC End PW1 1906 Colonial Powers
218 BC Hannibal 1929 Hitler
216 BC Cannae 1931 Hitler
206 BC Cádiz 1941 Dunkirk Major military seaport evacuations
202 BC Zama 1945 End WW2 Conclusion of existential wars
146 BC Carthage & Corinth sacked 2001 Gulf Wars, 911
133 T Graccus 2014
123 C Graccus 2024
107 Marius 2040
81 Sulla 2066
59 Caesar 2086
55 Pompey 2092
49 War 2098
44 Caesar dies 2103
31 Actium 2116
27 Augustus 2120
23 tribune 2124
13 Pannonia 2134
9 Varus 2138
0 Christ 2147
14 Tiberius 2161
30 Christ 2177
37 Caligula 2184
41 Claudius 2188
43 Britain 2190
54 Nero 2201
66 Jewish War 2213
69 Vespasian 2216

Cherry picking events that map to certain dates proves nothing.

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2147, there was no year zero
2088I'll grant you that one

356 BC Alexander Born 1791 France, Australia, USA, India Founding Empires
338 BC End Latin War 1809 France, Australia, USA, India Empires Expand
323 BC Alexander dies - Seleucid, Ptolemys 1824 Australia, USA, China, Africa European empires consolidate

275 BC Pyrrhus 1872 Colonial Powers
263 BC First Punic War 1884 Colonial Powers
241 BC End PW1 1906 Colonial Powers

?? India Empire Expands, Colonial Powers?

What the heck do these mean?

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Did nothing "interesting" happen in 1940 or 1942?

Does WWI not rate a mention?

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These dates were not cherry-picked. Most of the ancient dates were taken from a main timeline of Roman history (reference The Tutorial History of Rome by Allcroft and Mason, also an accessible crib at http://www.forumromanum.org/history/morey01.html ). The modern correlates are simply main events with an apparent synchronicity across the 2147 year gap. The OP list is quite rough as a first indicative effort and needs considerable refinement. The expectation of patterns is based on the claim that this 2147 year period is a main cosmic cyclic structure for the planet, with a real natural physical basis. This specific pattern here derives mainly from comparison of the USA and Rome as leaders of the Western world in their day. This leadership has complex ecological and historical roots, which I suggest can usefully be analysed against the cycle of precession, giving an apparent cosmic explanatory dimension.

My view is that these parallels reflect an actual deep pattern in time, revealing how the complex structures of human life have an ordered basis in cosmic ecology. The causation is highly complex, so the times of resonant events may often be out by a few years, and linked energies will manifest in different ways. The modern equivalents, in this initial rough presentation, could range from the USA narrowly considered to western civilization as a whole, or key figures such as Oliver Cromwell. The hypothesis is that comparison of the shape of ancient and modern history against the natural precessional cycle is interesting and fruitful, displaying strong apparent synchronicities.

The process of historical comparison outlined here is based on an observation by Dane Rudhyar that Alexander’s feats match those of Napoleon at equivalent points in the cycle of precession. In using this idea I am not trying to defend all of Rudhyar’s ideas, as I think he mixes good and bad – some readers here may be disposed to see this theory among the latter! Looking at the Alexander-Napoleon parallel , it is apparent that the modern and ancient worlds of these periods shared major similarities at dates 2147 years apart, corroborating the underlying cyclic theory. Rudhyar’s claim about Napoleon and Alexander can be expanded to compare the ancient Greek conquest of the Middle East to Europe’s conquests of Africa and Australia, as well as Napoleon’s abortive Russian venture and the steady geographical growth of settlement in North America. (323BC=1824AD)

Based on this initial apparent similarity suggested by Rudhyar, my next step was to test the claim against a time line of main Roman events. The OP data presents the following narrative. Rome and the Americas were founded at broadly the same time in the 2147 year cycle. The Roman story is shrouded in the Romulus city myth. The American discovery presents no obvious direct ancient correlate with 1492 (=655BC), but that may reflect lack of records of this period. The next phase is much clearer. Expulsion of the Kings of Rome and establishment of the republic happened in the precise phase when England abolished the monarchy and the free settlers expanded from Plymouth Rock (510BC=1637AD). Next again for both America and Rome was consolidation of the future world power against local indigenous landowners. The Roman consolidation of power over Latium and Italy corresponds with establishment of the thirteen states of the union and subsequent manifest destiny period. The end of the Latin War in 338BC correlates to 1809AD, marking broad parallel processes of state formation.

This basis in national power then enabled state expansion and conflict with other world powers. A most interesting correlate is that Carthage was a world power challenging Rome at the point in the cycle that Germany challenged the USA. The defeat of Hannibal at Zama correlates precisely with the defeat of Hitler. The evacuation of Cadiz by Carthage before Scipio’s advance was precisely one precessional cycle before the beginning of WW2. Allcroft and Mason call Cadiz (then Gades) the ancient Dunkirk.

The biggest destructive event during the Roman Republic may well have been the razing of Carthage and Corinth in 146 at the end of the Punic Wars. The modern correlate year, 2001, saw both the biggest destructive event inflicted on the modern analogous Republic, the 9/11 attack, (turning tables?) and over a longer period the Gulf Wars between the US Republic and a hegemonic challenger.

These deep harmonic causal patterns of the earth are not deterministic. Humans are free to choose and many historic events are accidents. However, this cosmic factor can be considered just as important a background cause for history as the physical economics of the earth. The precessional waves have the genetic advantage of having occurred for all terrestrial genes about two million times since the dawn of life with clockwork regularity. It is entirely possible that deeper causal patterns such as these exist.

Adding in the parallels between Pythagoras and Kepler, Plato and Kant, and Aristotle and Hegel is a bit of fun – Nietzsche might have called it the eternal return of the same.

Looking to the future, this model suggests internal conflict within the USA/west over the next 100 years, with imperial consolidation after 2117 and the birth of a second Christ around 2147.

I note that the 1/12 division of the 2147 age is 178.9 years, precisely the period of the solar system barycenter. Perhaps these are also linked?

what exactly is so special about the number 12?
and should there not be error bars on some of the dates?
e.g. what does it mean:1567 Kepler/Galileo
Kepler was not born until 1571!!!
Galileo was all about 3 years old in 1567!

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Oh, they most certainly were.

just check out the initial items other people have been posting on this thread.

If I really thought that was worth the effort, I could easily identify hundreds or thousands of similar events that do not map to the years in your list. You could do it too, if you were motivated to check your own work.

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Cherry picking

and making mountains out of molehills

This is the stuff I frequently hear on CTC

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Wouldn't Japan challenging the USA be a batter comparison?

Germany was very casreful not to challenge the USA, they were desperate to keep them out of the war.

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I guess they shouldn't have declared war on the US then. (Just picking a nit, this post is no way an endorsement of the ideas presented in the OP).

Nick

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Yes; but after a few years of war, after the Japanese came into it, and after seeing the Americans supplying the British already.

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Germany only declared war after the attack on Pearl Harbour, by then it was just a formality, American Destroyers had been hunting U-Boats for months before, trying to provoke an attack.

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I'm sorry this comparison doesn't make any sense at all.
On 146 bc, a republic (Rome) won a war and destroyed a clear rival, a enemy state (Carthage).
On 2001, a republic (U.S.A.) was the target of an attack rather than launching an attack, the attack itself wasn't fatal nor decisive like the destruction of Carthage and last but not least, the republic's enemy wasn't a rival power, a state, it was an underground organization, a network of cells and individuals living and working in several countries.
If you're going to try to convince us that there are some kind of cycles or patterns in history, then you should look for better matches.

The number twelve is special in this instance because it is a main common harmonic multiple of the long term temporal waves that surround the evolution of the earth. A year naturally divides in two and four when length of days is mapped as a sine wave. Taking the next equal division of the year into three, as I explained at the previous thread mentioned in the OP, produces a natural twelve-fold division by combination of the duple and triple factors.

Here is a further new idea about why 12 is cosmically special. In the current thread Jupiter influencing sunspots , JimP has posted data on the regular barycentric cycle of period 178.9 years. The astounding thing about this solar period is that it is precisely 1/12 of an age (2147 years) and 1/144th of a Great Year. The earth’s precession is exactly correlated to the rhythm of the solar system.

As JimP quotes from from: “A Possible Relationship Between Spectral Bands In Sunspot Number and the Space-Time Organization of Our Planetary System”; written by H. Schwentek and W. Elling. http://esoads.eso.org/abs/1984SoPh...93..403S “when our solar system is realized to be a complete whole, a great organism, in which the planets are something like organs, then an internal relationship between the center of the system, the sun, and the planets may be assumed, at least as a working hypothesis”

The material I have presented here correlating Rome and the USA supports this basic thesis of logic with hard empirical data – backed by the amazing mathematics of the correlation between precession and the barycentre. The twelve-fold rhythm is simply a deeply imbedded causal reality in terrestrial time.

Yes for defining influence, but no for most historical dates. I have chosen main events in main timelines for which dates are well known, so in this sense error bars are not needed. The postulated influence over 2147 years will have an orb, with some powerful events having fairly precise matches, such as the battles of Zama and Normandy, and others, such as the founding of Rome and of America, having a much looser correlation. As well, like the influence of Jupiter’s perihelion on sunspot dates, there are bound to be factors which will stretch or shrink the causal links between particular times.

This question, and some of the comments, illustrate that my initial explanation has not been clear enough. The point is to start from the scientific mathematics of the 2147 year cycle to understand how deeply it is imbedded in the history of the earth as a main temporal structure. I know this is obscure for mainstream astronomy, but the mathematics is really quite simple if anyone took an interest. Next, the question here is, what patterns on earth are likely to illustrate this correlation? My method uses the dominant Western civilizations as a case study because they are prima facie the most complex ecologies of their day on our planet, as well as the only comparable entities with clear temporal records across the ages.

To test this hypothesis, I then went to a standard Roman history to find the main dates on a timeline of ancient Rome, producing most of the dates listed in the OP. I also added a small number of other dates (eg Plato=Kant, Pythagoras=Kepler) as I believe these illustrate deep similarities in the cultural role played by these men in their respective epochs.

The hypothesis, as a matter of long term biological precessional causation, is that the history of Rome should have an analogous shape, with 2147 years separation, to the history of the USA. In both we see phases of discovery, consolidation, expansion, conflict and attack – a historic outline with main specific events separated by 2147 years, corroborating the claim. The many cultural parallels between America and Rome are augmented by an exact and predictable cosmic pattern. The skeletons of the two histories run in parallel, and this is explained by precession as an astronomical prediction. This core finding makes it reasonable to look at any other set of events between analogous powers separated by one age to find parallels.

As I noted, this correlation is between the leading powers of the West. Hence the fact that the Romans and the English got rid of their kings at the same cyclic moment, with error 12 years = 0.5% between 510BC and 1649AD, is illustrative.

My comment that the twin towers correlation was ‘turning tables?’ was intended to suggest it had some opposite causal relation – attacked rather than attacking. I do not want to make too much of that as you are right that there are better matches. A much stronger correlation at the same phase, as I mentioned, is between the conflicts Rome vs Carthage/Greece and USA vs Iraq.

I think a problem with this, and this is probably what other people mean by cherry-picking, is that important philosophers have come around every couple of decades, I suppose. So if you give sufficient leeway, you are bound to come up with somebody who will be around 2,147 years after a given person A. For example, choose the Buddha, born around 560 BC. And add your 2,147 years and you get something like 1587. Ahah. Martin Luther... Nope. He was 1450. Hmm. OK. Calvin was alive in 1587. So we have Buddha-Calvin. Nice connection. I think that if you give me anybody in history, I can find somebody alive 2147 years later who is related in some way.

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Right, it's Dutch Redux. This is a subjective determination of what is a match and looking for things to fit the dates. The "Bible Code" stuff is another similar example, where people look for supposed hidden messages in oodles of text.

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I think that's his point!

But maybe we can do the same for some other random number, instead of 2147

My thoughts exactly. I spent a lot of time getting to understand what he was doing, and this is just about exactly the same thing, only less complex.

The bold bit sort of bothers me though. Wow, it's both 1/12 of and age AND 1/144th of a great year? The length of an age is defined as 1/12 of a great year. Any relation to one will have a 1:12 relation to the other. Not that impressive when you really think about it. Also, how exact is it? is that 178.9 rounded at all? how about the 2147. If you intend to use a term like "Exact" and have it matter, then we need to know just how exact your "Exact" really is.

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At this stage I would prefer to set aside the claims about individuals for the reason you outline. Looking again at the main patterns of history with broadly rounded numbers, we have

Discovery: (750-650BC = 1400-1500AD)
• Establishment of Rome = European discovery of the Americas

Consolidation: 650-350BC = 1500-1800AD
• Building institutions of Roman Republic and conquest of immediate region = same process for USA (with main results at end of phase for both)

Expansion 350-250BC = 1800-1900
• Conquest of Italy = steady westward expansion of USA

Conflict: 250-200BC = 1900-1950AD
• Defensive Wars against Carthage (for domination of known world) = Defensive World Wars against Germany

‘Cold War’: 200-160BC = 1950-1990
• Hostility to Carthage and Greece = Hostility to USSR

Attack: 160-142BC = 1990-2008
• Destruction of Carthage and Corinth = Iraq War

Now I know that this schema is subject to nitpicking, but it is still broadly accurate, corroborating my thesis that precessional ages are real cosmic entities.

It also presents an interesting model for predicting the future. For example, we are still well inside the Republican phase, suggesting that descriptions of the USA as imperialist are more likely to be realised over the next few hundred years. Of course there is also the interesting take on eschatology, as noted by hhEb09'1 with his comment on 2147 = 0

No, the Bible Code comparison is not valid. Like Hoagland’s Martian imagination, it uses an utterly tendentious and forced method, whereas the correlations I am claiming simply line up major events of world history to corroborate a scientific (ie not religious) theory of the structure of time. I am happy to strip away the oodles (eg Plato=Kant) to produce a simple broad historical correspondence.

My argument suggests that Rome and America were the ‘bow waves’ of human evolution in their respective ages, so they naturally exhibited an underlying ‘character’ of their ages in broadly similar ways. If the 2147 year long age is real you would not be able to substitute a random number and get similar correlations. This is about how our planet relates to the cosmos, through precession as a deep wave with significant causal power.

In my last post I observed the remarkable correlation between precession and the rhythm of the solar system barycenter. This apparent entrainment between the precession of the equinox and the wave form of the centre of the solar system opens up a very interesting approach to the solar system as a unified functional structure.

(and hey, I’m thinking again about Buddha and Calvin…)

Right, so if we can get it to work for some other number, you're all wet, right?


PS: here's one: 1911. The number of years between the birth of Christ and the birth of L. Ron Hubbard. Let's see what else falls out of that one

PSS: OK, I think we can match up Pythagoras and Ibn al Shatir

Interesting how the scales change too!

Conquest of Italy / USA: 301230 km2 / 9161930 km2 -> factor 30.4

dunno if that is important but 2147 / 30.4 = 70.6

and 70.6 years is about the average life span of an american man!!

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“A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is”
道德經, 二十七 (dào dé jīng, 27)

Oh, Gods. Why do I let myself in for this? I know you're going to call this nitpicking.

How on Earth do you get the time of "1400-1500AD" for the European discovery of the Americas? There was no discovery for 92 years of that time period. The fourth voyage of Columbus wasn't until 1502. The conquest of the Aztec empire wasn't until 1521. The conquest of the Incan empire wasn't until 1532. In short, you're looking at a 40-year period that starts 92 years after your presumed starting date.

The US frontier was considered closed in 1880, when the line between settled and unsettled regions could no longer be drawn clearly.

And, as I'm sure you know, World War I didn't start until 1914, and World War II ended in 1945. Further, that whole period was not spend in defensive wars against Germany. Between 1919 and the mid-1930s, there was no reason to assume there would be another defensive war any time soon. Further, the first steps toward war were made when Italy conqured Ethiopia, and the second ones were when 1937. That can hardly be considered a defensive war against Germany.

And what makes you think the process of building insitutions is over, even 200 years after your alleged date of 1800?

Then again, I'm quite sure your Roman history is every bit as imprecise. It's just that I know American history better.

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I would say the USA didn't fight a defensive war against Germany at all. Britain and Russia were on the defensive for a while at the start of ww2 but thereafter they were on the offensive.

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In one case there is a made up system to find patterns in a large chunk of text based on subjective standards. In the other case there is a made system to find patterns in a large chunk of history based on subjective standards. I don't see a significant distinction in methodology.

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I've read your timeline and there is something that seems odd to me.
If the U.S. is the modern equivalent of Rome, then what is the ancient equivalent of the U.K. ? That's a country that the U.S. interacted with a lot, and which influenced it's history so where's the Roman equivalent?

How is this for a thought experiment? Time-warp Pythagoras and his merry band of ultimate-truth-seeking number crunchers to the present and see what they make of this thread.

The distinction is that precession is objective, with the historical parallels fitting an actual astronomical prediction. By contrast the so-called Bible Code lacks any scientific basis and is grounded in obsolete metaphysical ideas which have been debunked by science. You may not like my ideas but you cannot debunk them.

This is a good question. As I have noted there are British parallels, for example the 2147 year gap between the Cromwell Republic in 1640 and the Roman expulsion of the early kings. And of course the UK and USA were close allies in WW2 and against Iraq, and the British imperial expansion of the nineteenth century is part of a broader world process together with the American frontier. I noted earlier that we should expect to see parallels between leading entities ranging from world to individual scale. Other leading players also exhibit strong parallels - such as Napoleon in France and Alexander in Ancient Greece. In so far as the UK has been a world leader we should expect to find parallels between its major events and those of the leading powers of the ancient world.

Are you sure your name isn't "Dutch"? Your argument has already been debunked. It's irrelevant what number you start with, your criteria are subjective.

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